No more FPDW anywhere!

[Karl_EDT]

1- A large number of casino patrons, players, customers etc must collectively and formally communicate in writing or email that they are fed up with the greedy actions of the big casino corporations.

The biggest reason I no longer seriously play is all these issues we touch upon in this forum, especially the blatant lack of customer service and price gouging/unreasonable cost increases.

[applepear86]

Olds is sitting pretty with his 91.8% MS return to player. No wonder he pulls 10 hour marathons! Harrah’s is the best in NJ and it’s only 83% IIRC.
I’m with Dinghy on the worst people on earth tag, broad as it may be. I’m not crying about the demise of 100%+ games I never bothered to learn. Settle for the mere 99%+ like the rest of us.

99%+ is hard to find, even has disappeared from a lot of high limit rooms. Mr. Magoo and his wife Gertrude holding 3 random flush cards with no possibility of a straight flush instead of a pair or face cards on a 8/5 DDB dollar denom is becoming the norm. Casinos won't care about the action of players who play perfect and want 99%+ paytables, when they can give Mister Magoo the 92% champ a free sandwich, a couple bottles of pepsi, a cookie, $20 in freeplay, and a few dozen entries into a worthless drawing every week in exchange for a good portion of his social security check lol. You know the 6:5 blackjack and triple 000 roulette purge? Happening to VP right now too as we speak. Can anything be done about it? I don't think so.

[dinghy]

I would simply say, I'm not a gambler, therefore could never be in this class of among the "worst people."
I'm a former regular VP player and casino patron who did so for entertainment, fun and relaxation, and has discovered over the last 10-15 years that it's no longer affordable to do so. ALl the fun, relaxation and entetainment was eliminated with the greedy and anti-consumer practices and business philosophy of the corporations.

I usually try to be civil, but your attitude really irritates me, especially considering your similar posts in the other thread on resort fees and gas prices.

Only four years ago, some of the casino corporations suffered near-death experiences -- through no fault of their own. Casino stock prices collapsed 80 to 90%, before recovering to varying degrees as the panic subsided. It's been a stressful, disruptive decade for anyone trying to manage a business.

What are the specific, measurable, current practices that you consider greedy and anti-consumer? (I responded in the other thread as to why I consider resort fees a non-issue.)

Is there any one casino currently that you don't hate ?

[dinghy]

I don't see B&M diminishing in AZ.

Online casino games are illegal in AZ.

But sports betting in AZ is OVERWHELMINGLY online.

https://www.playusa.com/january-2024-re ... -gambling/

For January, AZ sportsbooks won $69 million online, and 0.3 million at B&Ms. That's 99.5% online!

[Johnny B Goode]

I agree that game sucks

[Karl_EDT]

I would simply say, I'm not a gambler, therefore could never be in this class of among the "worst people."
I'm a former regular VP player and casino patron who did so for entertainment, fun and relaxation, and has discovered over the last 10-15 years that it's no longer affordable to do so. ALl the fun, relaxation and entetainment was eliminated with the greedy and anti-consumer practices and business philosophy of the corporations.

I usually try to be civil, but your attitude really irritates me, especially considering your similar posts in the other thread on resort fees and gas prices.

Only four years ago, some of the casino corporations suffered near-death experiences -- through no fault of their own. Casino stock prices collapsed 80 to 90%, before recovering to varying degrees as the panic subsided. It's been a stressful, disruptive decade for anyone trying to manage a business.

What are the specific, measurable, current practices that you consider greedy and anti-consumer? (I responded in the other thread as to why I consider resort fees a non-issue.)

Is there any one casino currently that you don't hate ?

If you're refering to the Covid pandemic four years ago, a lot of businesses suffered greatly, not just gaming. it happened, they recovered. Some other businesses are still suffering from what happened in the pandemic, casinos are not.

I don't hate casinos, I hate some of these practices and what has happened to the gaming experience in general. Your argument in the other post that the ridiculous resort fees are just reallocated rooming costs is reaching. The things the hotels charge as resort fees, whether someone uses them or not, used to be either optional or included in the cost of the room. It's disingenuous and just dumb the way they do it now. And the parking situation is the kicker, not just the fact these places charge for parking but the amounts; some casinos you can get out of parking fees if you are a high enough rated player/tier level, but again, this is not a "GOOD" thing or development.

Obviously you have no problem with any of what bugs me, good for you; either that or you work for, or own a crap load of stock in casinos.

[OTABILL]

I don't see B&M diminishing in AZ.

Online casino games are illegal in AZ.

But sports betting in AZ is OVERWHELMINGLY online.

https://www.playusa.com/january-2024-re ... -gambling/

For January, AZ sportsbooks won $69 million online, and 0.3 million at B&Ms. That's 99.5% online!

I speculated on the reason the number of B&M casinos have increased in AZ. What is relevant is that there are more B7M casinos in AZ today than a few years ago. Just saying.

[applepear86]

I would simply say, I'm not a gambler, therefore could never be in this class of among the "worst people."
I'm a former regular VP player and casino patron who did so for entertainment, fun and relaxation, and has discovered over the last 10-15 years that it's no longer affordable to do so. ALl the fun, relaxation and entetainment was eliminated with the greedy and anti-consumer practices and business philosophy of the corporations.

I usually try to be civil, but your attitude really irritates me, especially considering your similar posts in the other thread on resort fees and gas prices.

Only four years ago, some of the casino corporations suffered near-death experiences -- through no fault of their own. Casino stock prices collapsed 80 to 90%, before recovering to varying degrees as the panic subsided. It's been a stressful, disruptive decade for anyone trying to manage a business.

What are the specific, measurable, current practices that you consider greedy and anti-consumer? (I responded in the other thread as to why I consider resort fees a non-issue.)

Is there any one casino currently that you don't hate ?

Are we supposed to feel any sympathy for casinos? Because I don't. Glad they got screwed during covid.

Karl is right though, they're obviously greedy and anti-consumer. Especially in regional markets. And as the wall street casino cartels consolidate property ownership, so are the formerly competitive casino resort markets like LV. People complain on a daily basis, 5 dollar bottled water, 30 dollar drinks. 50 dollars for breakfast. Skimpy Comps. Worse and worse odds on everything. 7/5 DDB, 6/5 blackjack, 000 roulette all with high table minimums to add insult to injury. Slots that hold over 15%+. Trends are definitely going down a one way linear path, and it's definitely not in the favor of the consumers.

But the reason they are is because it works, as the player base keeps coming back for more abuse. If it didn't work, they wouldn't run it like they do. No activism from video poker players of all people will change that.

[dinghy]

Obviously you have no problem with any of what bugs me, good for you; either that or you work for, or own a crap load of stock in casinos.

Sorry, this will require a lengthy response. I have big problems with the way the industry has gone, but I'm more disappointed than angry, and I think your anger is unproductively misdirected.

I'm a part-time advantage player. 2019 was my best year ever. I had a full rotation of low-risk, profitable plays throughout Las Vegas.

And then 2020 happened. Disaster. Total shutdown for three months, and then upon reopening, most of the good promos were gone. If I can't find good plays, I don't play at all. So I was much less active at gambling, and my profits declined sharply.

If I have to blame anyone, it would be the covid tyrant politicians -- mostly Democrat governors, and the Republican president. It was bipartisan tyranny. And they were aided by the regime media which embraced and magnified the panic.

After the fact, no one apologized. And they'll do it again at the next opportunity. That's just reality.

I still haven't recovered my good advantage plays in Vegas, so I've shifted focus. Sports betting, and other jurisdictions. Reno is much looser than Vegas. Just about 6 months ago, the Atlantis CEO complained that his competitors are irresponsibly generous:



This is a vp forum, and some of the members only play vp and nothing else. They've observed the long-running trend of tightened vp benefits, and may think the casinos have become "greedier." In reality though, the benefits have mostly shifted from vp to reels. Originally, every game earned points at the same rate. But the newer systems are more reflective of theo. A few years back, Boyd rolled out a revised club requiring $5 per tier credit at reels -- but over $100 per at full-pay vp.

I try to keep aware of the entire gaming landscape because I don't want to overlook an AP opportunity. Even with my knowledge, I don't feel very qualified to pick casino stocks for investment. At present, I have no such holdings. My last one was LVS Las Vegas Sands, which I sold more than a year ago -- too soon .

I do own a bunch of oil and gas stocks. I've posted in the investment thread.

I find people criticize specific things that annoy them, without trying to understand the big picture. Here's an example from that other thread:

viewtopic.php?p=75896#p75896

And have you ever flown Spirit Airlines? I think they charge if you want to use the bathroom on their planes. Corporate America has decided most people don't care of pay attention to the details but the cable companies and the phone companies are the worse and the casinos are steadily closing the gap.

Let's be honest, some people just have a problem with change. They need everything the same as it was 40 years ago. Spirit has a distinctive pricing model. Everything costs extra.

But that's neither good nor bad, inherently. You have to consider the base rates and total cost. If I'm flexible on dates, I can fly Spirit from LAS to RNO for $20! And I'll happily cram all my stuff into a personal bag to avoid the luggage fee. I think they're offering incredible value. Funny how that works.

Not sure about this, but I heard taxes are only assessed on fares and not add-ons. So they adjust the pricing structure to fit the tax incentives. Wasn't there something similar with resort fees? The casinos were trying to cut Priceline out of the profits.

[dinghy]

Are we supposed to feel any sympathy for casinos? Because I don't. Glad they got screwed during covid.

Karl is right though, they're obviously greedy and anti-consumer. Especially in regional markets. And as the wall street casino cartels consolidate property ownership, so are the formerly competitive casino resort markets like LV.

The casinos didn't do anything to deserve it. Forcibly shutting down a business is akin to imprisoning an individual. (Which was also done, via lockdowns.)

What else is different about regional markets that could explain the apparent greed? How about tax rates? 50% in some markets, compared to around 10% in Nevada iirc. The greediest players in the game are the politicians and voters.

If you want pro-consumer conditions, you need the freest markets possible. Many regional markets have caps on licenses, and big political payoffs are required to obtain one. Even Vegas has major barriers to entry.

It doesn't make sense to claim that an entire industry is enjoying irresponsible greed, and yet no other operators invade to capture some of the profits. It suggests a flawed analysis.

Casino stocks have been poor performers. There's a gaming ETF, ticker symbol BJK. Since 2008 inception, total return is +40%. S&P 500 same period is +430%.