Fa La La La La.... La la la la's Luck

[shadowman]

And I know that playing the same old long term on full pay and hoping is not the answer.
 
It is the ONLY approach that does not require much better than average luck. However, although full pay machines are required, they are not sufficient. You need to play correctly and use discipline.
 
Don't forget that we are all playing in our own version of the long term. It keeps getting longer the more we play. The entire idea of "short term" strategies is absurd unless you plan on never gambling again.
 
Most casinos dont have full pay.
 
Then you should not expect to win there. However, if you enjoy playing you can minimize your losses over time by using the exact same approach as you would use for full pay ... play correctly and use discipline.
 
It's may be boring at times but there is no magic bullet.

[shadowman]

There are portions of Dancer's system and portions of Fa La La La La.... La la la la's system that are worthwhile to me.
 
Dancer does not have a system. He uses expert play strategies devised long before he came to Las Vegas. However, he has done more to promote these strategies than anyone else.
 
Fa La La La La.... La la la la's system is just another way to say "pay me now or pay me later".
 
No one but you can force you to take your winnings home. But it seems to me that if you are so lucky as to beat the odds, it is just plain nutso to put the money back into the machines.
 
I only quoted part of your excellent response about discipline to save space. Since most gamblers play with expected returns far less than 100% (even on full pay machines), they will eventually lose whatever they win. Most people find losing less disheartening than winning big and then losing it all, even if they go home further ahead. In addition, gamblers will often start taking higher risks (read that as playing poorer return games or higher denoms) attempting to recover what they've lost. Note that this is often inherent in Fa La La La La.... La la la la's system as the expected return of some games goes down as the denom goes up.
 
However, from a purely mathematical standpoint it really doesn't matter. Your lifetime results will always add up to your results from each individual hand so leaving and returning another day is not a factor. The only things that are factors are YOUR expected return and how much you gamble.
 

[oej719]

I am begining to think you are Dancer or his representative. Are you?
If all you say is what you believe, then why gamble because feeding money into a machine and enjoying it everyday because of comps and entertainment value just would not do much for me, expecting to lose.
 
Taking that same money and  investing it properly can earn more than 1-2%. Gambling once or twice a year for fun with friends and vacation is fun and carefree. But several times a week with no expectation for winning is wrong and probably a problem for most.
Heres a idea  find a good gaming stock and start trading there shares and use those profits, if you you realize any, to gamble at your favorite casino.

[MikeA]

OEJ719,
 
Some of your comments hit home for me.  Indeed, the last several trips I've made, I've had rough results from VP.  Fortunately, I've recovered my loses by playing Blackjack.   But, I'm not advocating depending on BJ to offset loses in VP (or the other way around either). 
 
But, the two games are similar in expected return.  BJ, with decent table rules, will give you an expected return of 99%+ if you play basic strategy and just flat bet (don't vary your basic bets).
 
I don't get to casinos with full-pay very often (closest to me is Las Vegas I guess).  So, gambling is a passtime, not a profession for me.  But even as a hobby, I do not want to squander away money in ingorance.  I strive to play the best VP and BJ that I can.  I mean, I try to play correctly following the best strategy I can absorb to cut my loses as much as possible. 
 
And we DO enjoy our "vacation" money, especially in Las Vegas.   Only a couple more weeks until our next trip!

[shadowman]

I am begining to think you are Dancer or his representative. Are you?
 
No and I'm not a big fan, although I respect the information he provides.
 

If all you say is what you believe, then why gamble because feeding money into a machine and enjoying it everyday because of comps and entertainment value just would not do much for me, expecting to lose.
 
I don't expect to  lose. I expect to win over time and I do. I play when I have the advantage. I realize this is not possible in every casino and most people don't have the time or energy to invest in such a low return endeavor. I would likely make MORE money working a part time job. However, I have personal reasons as well and enjoy the independence.
 
Taking that same money and  investing it properly can earn more than 1-2%. Gambling once or twice a year for fun with friends and vacation is fun and carefree. But several times a week with no expectation for winning is wrong and probably a problem for most.
Heres a idea  find a good gaming stock and start trading there shares and use those profits, if you you realize any, to gamble at your favorite casino.

 
It doesn't take much money for me to gamble. I already have 50 times my gambling bankroll in other investments. I use the money I make gambling for non-essential items. Last year I bought a new plama TV and this year I've invested in some new golf equipment. I gamble low denoms (.25 -$1 so obviously not Dancer). They have the best % returns available.
 
Your idea about investing in gaming stocks is a good one. They have performed quite well and I expect them to continue with overseas expansion.
 
 

[oej719]

I guess we all are trying to accomplish the same thing-- make some money and have fun and excitement. But mostly make some money. Happy Easter  to all.

[shadowman]

I don't get to casinos with full-pay very often (closest to me is Las Vegas I guess).  So, gambling is a passtime, not a profession for me.  But even as a hobby, I do not want to squander away money in ingorance.  I strive to play the best VP and BJ that I can.  I mean, I try to play correctly following the best strategy I can absorb to cut my loses as much as possible. 
 
And we DO enjoy our "vacation" money, especially in Las Vegas.   Only a couple more weeks until our next trip!
 
I think MikeA's advice is extremely good. Learning enough VP skills to maximize your chances WHEN you play does not take that much time. A little investment in one of the software programs, some intense practice at first but very little time spent refreshing after that. Pick one or two games that have good paybacks and you're set for life. I also like his idea of having back-up plans. Blackjack and pass-line craps both have good paybacks and are great changes of pace.
 
Mike, have fun in Vegas. I hope you win as well.

[cddenver]

I think the smart thing to do with any system is to take the portions of it that you think are worthwhile and apply them to your own personal style of play.
 
There are portions of Dancer's system and portions of Fa La La La La.... La la la la's system that are worthwhile to me.
 
Fa La La La La.... La la la la seems to bring controversy to any VP chat site, whether he is physically present or not, so I am very glad to see that this discussion has proceeded so far with respect and tact.
 
In my opinion, his advice about discipline is the most important part of his system.
 
 
Yes, discipline is very important.  Every good approach stresses it, and even some of the bad ones.
 
I do something similar to what said you do on a good day.  In my case, I deposit my winnings in the bank and make sure I do something PRODUCTIVE with some of it - extra house payment, extra vehicle payment, new furniture, whatever - before the next casino visit. 
 
I also don't let a good day affect my play on subsequent sessions.  I usually bring the same amount of $$$ for a session regardless of whether the previous session was a win, lose, or draw.  When I was much younger (had hair!) most of my worst sessions came right after my best sessions - I'd get that King of the Mountain feeling.  Bad, bad, bad.
 

[cddenver]

P.S.  I just read Fa La La La La.... La la la la's latest. On his last gambling trip he played 5 sessions and won all 5.

 
Depending on your play style, winning 5 consecutive sessions isn't THAT unusual.  I have runs like that a couple of times a year, defining "win" in the literal sense, and not as "win big".  I also have one or two runs each year where I lose 5 consecutive times - that's no fun.
 

[oej719]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Results as of:

April 06, 2007

 

Total Professional Sessions:
 
290

 

Total Pro Winning Sessions:
 
252

 

Total Pro Losing Sessions:
 
38
 
Right off his website. Who here can beat that? LOL
That is a little better than 5 in a row, don't ya think.
The man just has the touch.