Leaving Sunday 07-05

[Tedlark]

  notes, on a local level I do have several options where to play but I chose to play only where the machines are to my liking. There are several casinos in my area (Grand Victoria in Elgin, IL, Rivers Casino in Des Plaines, IL, come immediately to mind) where I've only played once or twice and haven't returned. It usually boils down to if I won or lost there along with the general "feel" of the place. It's been 3 years since I stepped foot in Rivers and longer since I played at Grand Victoria.    I'm not afraid to jump in the car and make a 4-5 hour drive to play at a casino that I may like and Vman can attest to this because I met him in St. Louis at the end of 2014. I've also made several trips to the Cincinnati/Lawrenceburg area with the last one being July of 2014.    For those who play in the Atlantic City area have you ever tried the casino action in the Philly area? Or what's the drive time to Mountaineer? Or Connecticut to Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods?    If the video poker play is as bad in Atlantic City as people report then it will not change if people continue to play there. As DaBurglar so intelligently noted, I have not played in Atlantic City for atleast 5 years. Maybe that's because he started posting almost 5 years ago on how bad the video poker in Atlantic City was so why would I go there after reading his inciteful (oops I meant insightful) posts?   As many people here have also pointed out; video poker is a long term proposition and win some, lose some. Just because I was lucky 80% of my gambling sessions for the last 2 1/2 years does not mean that I won't be unlucky in the next 2 1/2 years. Also; some players just don't play a machine long enough to cycle back into a favorable cycle. Some players are too quick to pull off a machine after just a hundred hands or so because they haven't hit anything. I prefer to play a machine a while longer. Last year I met a player, who used to be part of our merry band here, when he came up to Illinois from Florida. I sat at the same machine for several hours and was deep DEEP into a losing session when I hit AWAK and then I was dealt quad 4's less than 5 minutes later. This took me from -$2,000.00 to +$1,800.00 in the blink of an eye.    To rebut DaBurglar: my comments about "don't play in Atlantic City if you think something is wrong" are not hypocritical but rather they are logical.

[notes1]

ted, i live in NC. the only reasonable drive casino is 4 1/2 hours away. i drive there once a month. it is the only casino for a four state area (nc, ga, sc, va).  but, the reason for my original post has gone unanswered. does the state of NJ treat VP the same as slots? i will restate, it is a legit question.

[Tedlark]

notes a while back several other posters here, myself included, wrote that the New Jersey gaming regulations 13:69E-1, Gaming Provisions, only mention video poker once. It can be found in 13:69E-1.28A(g):


(g)     A slot machine game that requires skilled strategy choices, such as video poker, shall:
1.     Have its theoretical RTP calculated based upon the player exercising optimal strategy during game play;
2.     Disclose optimal strategy to achieve the highest theoretical RTP; or
3.     Provide mathematically sufficient information for the patron to derive optimal strategy in order to achieve the highest theoretical RTP.

There is language about RTP, Return To Player, being 83% minimum but there is also language about the RNG and what the RTP can be with optimal play by the player.

The only reason video poker is classified with slots, as DaBurglar has mentioned a million times, is because they, slot machines and video poker machines, are electronic gaming machines.

If the video poker machines in an Atlantic City casino had an RTP of 83% then no intelligent experienced player would be playing them. Just because the gaming reg says RTP of 83% on a slot machine does not mean video poker machines are set that low.

[notes1]

ted, thanks for the info, i do not believe i have ever seen this before. if what you have written is the full extent of the regs, i guess i can see how 2 people, who are looking for 2 different answers, could find something to hang their arguement on. i understand the viewpoint that if the casino want to make more/payout less, they simply need to adjust the paytables. i also understand the position that there seems to be more at play causing the cost of gambling to increase, than simply reducing the payout for FH and flushes. i also accept the point that casinos could not conspire en mass, to rig the machines, without someone spilling the beans. but, i am also struck by the fact that no one can name a single occupation, business or governemnt agency, that has not been infected by some form of wrong doing. and, not be able to name a single casino, in recent memory that has lost it's license for any misdeed, seems to go against the odds.  the arguement will likely continue.

[DaBurglar]

    For those who play in the Atlantic City area have you ever tried the casino action in the Philly area? Or what's the drive time to Mountaineer? Or Connecticut to Mohegan Sun or Foxwoods?    If the video poker play is as bad in Atlantic City as people report then it will not change if people continue to play there. As DaBurglar so intelligently noted, I have not played in Atlantic City for atleast 5 years. Maybe that's because he started posting almost 5 years ago on how bad the video poker in Atlantic City was so why would I go there after reading his inciteful (oops I meant insightful) posts?    To rebut DaBurglar: my comments about "don't play in Atlantic City if you think something is wrong" are not hypocritical but rather they are logical.HYPOCRISY TAKES MANY FORMS, INCLUDING THIS:  When a Chronic hypocrite decides, on one single solitary issue, to appear "non-hypocritical"......Please note the italicized/boldfaced text:   Remember this the next time you want to dismiss anything I write or post, or when you feel compelled to post something like "Burglar, I do not even acknowledge your posts as having even the slightest bit of influence on me or my thinking" (something you have stated repeatedly over the years as a lame rebut to my ironclad responses to your potshots).....you just admitted (and legitimized)  my 5 years of posting about AC, acknowledging that I have, in fact (in point of fact actually) been the reason you avoid AC.....thanks Ted, for giving credit where credit is due and for finally acknowledging my service to this forum community.Having said that, I am sick of people picking and choosing, and distorting, what I say:    I have gone out of my way to state that, while my results in AC are indeed abnormally BAD for seemingly "normal" VP games and paytables, I have NEVER flat out adamantly stated its "FIXED" !!     Fixed  is the wrong word so perhaps this is just semantics, but if anyone wants to go back and bother to read ALL of my posts, you see that I describe AC video poker as more "It is definitely NOT at all like Vegas" instead of just  "FIXED"  or rigged (plus, as we all have agreed in the past, in the strictest sense of the word, ANY casino game is "FIXED" when you consider they all favor the house!!!)When you read AC gaming regs, you will clearly see how they do not  DEFINITIVELY differentiate between SLOT machines and Video poker, at least NOT to the extent Nevada/Vegas does or perhaps even other states and localities that have Casino gaming.    AC/Jersey gaming regs DO refer to games involving strategy and mathematical choices instead of just random numbers alone (video poker falls into this category), but still AC gaming regs are the worst written and seemingly purposely VAGUE.......and as I have reported for a long time, I have spoken to numerous people from numerous AC casinos as well as State Employees of the former Gaming Commission or the current "State Regulatory Apparatus"  who all seem to say or indicate that a Video Poker machine in AC is just another Slot as far as everyone/anyone managing (or regulating) the casinos is concerned....hence, the possibility of having Video Poker machines set up to return in the ranges of 83 to 90%  instead of the expected 95 to 99% we see EVERYWHERE ELSE, it is by DESIGN and INTENT  and NOT because things have been "FIXED" to be this way.....And again, as I have stated in the past, this is my own personal INFORMED, educated OPINION/Perception/Conclusion.......Clearly, other people agree with me, in full or at least in part, while others do not agree.     Who cares, I am entitled to this opinion, just as people are entitled to accept, reject, modify or alter my personal conclusions to suit their own.......but if someone has NEVER played in AC and has no real, practical experience regarding the issues I talk about, it behooves that individual to NOT make himself look like a complete, arrogant buffoon by vehemently disagreeing OVER AND OVER (i.e.   STOP COMPLAINING about the "COMPLAINING", which in turn will cause myself and perhaps others like notes1 to cease complaining about the complaining concerning all the complaining about AC video poker's statistically abnormal results)......And let me emphasize that last point.......my own PERSONAL conclusions regarding AC video poker are based on statistically accurate results, which show in the vast majority of sessions/machines/games that video poker in AC is exceedingly abnormal and volatile.GET IT?!?!?!?!?!?!

[FAA]

my own PERSONAL conclusions regarding AC video poker are based on
statistically accurate results, which show in the vast majority of
sessions/machines/games that video poker in AC is exceedingly abnormal
and volatile.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------This thread is specifically tailored and titled to have a laser focus: AC players, the intended audience. The cognoscenti. Unfortunately, the peanut gallery has chosen to pile on, creating a cacophony of distraction. In my own personal experience, when a supposedly even keeled 9/6 JOB machine hits an extended cold streak and vacuums twenty after twenty, that is an issue. Let us try carrying a pack of Post It pads. Simply place one over the bill slot after inserting your bill. That will be a clear as day indicator telling you not to insert any further funds into the void.

[Tedlark]

DaBurglar again: if your own PERSONAL conclusions regarding Atlantic City video poker are based on statistically accurate results, which show in the vast majority of sessions/machines/games that video poker in Atlantic Cityis exceedingly abnormal and volatile, then again, why do you still play video poker there?

Any "statistically accurate" results were created by you and how are we to get a clear and complete understanding of the accuracy of these when they were created by you? Do us a favor and hire an independent to come in and perform a study of video poker in Atlantic City. I would be more accepting of these results than yours.

FAA, nowhere in this thread topic do the words AC players appear. In my opinion you too are a player that doesn't accept that video poker is set up as a marathon and not a sprint. People may complain about machines being fixed, askew, out of kilter, tilted, whatever, when they are losing. Do these same people also think that machines are fixed, askew, out of kilter, tilted, or whatever, when they go on an extended winning streak? You and I (along with just about everyone here) both know that answer would be: NO.

[FAA]

you too are a player that doesn't accept that video poker is set up as a marathon and not a sprint.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That may be. I have flamed out trying to speed up winning by abandoning perfectly good machines for machines at a higher denom, leading to the inevitable boom or bust scenario. I should have been going in the other direction all along. Cheap Strategy ninety percent of the time. Pot Shot Play. Laying on sand instead of pounding sand. It may not be explicitly "set up" as a marathon, but players are much better off treating VP as such.

[jetermacaw]

Won $400 yesterday at Harrahs AC. Afternoon losing session of $200 on my favorite QQ machine, got 2 dealt QQs but could not put any good runs together. Went to dinner came back to same VP area, all 4 QQ machines were empty, very rare but like I said previously those machines are usually always occupied by 7* players. Went to my other favorite machine Super Triple Play, put in $100, was down to last $20 when 4oaks stated to hit, it was a slow consistent climb. Actually switched from 5 hand nickles to dimes. First hand of dimes caught 4oak deuces with kicker and 4 deuces DDB. Punched out ticket for $600 and went to bed.  

[notes1]

congrats jeter, and thanks for complete results.