Why are we all so glum?

[BobDancer]

So, Bob, it would appear that you continue to be successful and profitable playing VP in casinos today. What, in your mind, has changed in the VP environment, other than the obvious pay table reductions, that has made it more difficult, as everybody seems to assert? Would you be willing to share with us recreational players some of the changes in YOUR VP play that you have had to make to adjust to today's VP environment? You don't need to give away secrets, but some generalities would be helpful.           Video poker has always been a cat-and-mouse game between players and casinos. Both sides want to be profitable. So both sides make adjustments. Casinos offering the same games and promotions they did 20 years ago would be giving away the store. Players who use the same strategies they did 20 years ago aren't going to keep up.           The biggest change has to do with education. More players know how to play well today. (I'm partly responsible for this, of course. You can blame me or give me a lot of credit. I have had heaps of both kinds of reactions.) That means that casinos make less off of the same games and promotions that they did previously so they tighten up. This may or may not be their smartest move --- but it's what's been happening.          Some of the biggest casinos are in financial peril. Giving players good offers in this environment is just not happening. That said, I still play at Caesars at the Seven Star Level several times over. There ARE opportunities there --- but they are not as obvious as they were before.            Insofar as what should players do, I recommend what DB call's "Bob Dancer's Anal Retentive System." What I think he means by that is: learn the games well, only play when you have the advantage, learn about promotions and take advantage of them, and only play when you are at your best. NEVER drink alcohol in a casino. Exercise and maintain my health so I can play long hours when the opportunity presents itself.Another part of that is to ignore all artificial stop win or stop loss systems. If you limit yourself to when you have the advantage, and only play within your bankroll, you never have to worry about such nonsense. Whether or not a machine has paid well in the past hour or two SAYS NOTHING about what it's going to pay in the next hour or two. The idea that you should switch from video poker to $5 slots if the video poker hasn't been paying off today strikes me as preposterous!I read everything I can find that I think my help me. (Actually forcing myself to write a weekly column, archived on bobdancer.com, teaches me a lot). There are posters on this site and on vpFREE (with little overlap) who are knowledgeable and I learn from them. There are posters on both sites who aren't worth reading. I ignore them. Your opinion on who's good and who's not may not be the same as mine. I certainly don't want to start big arguments. I study to create a radio show every week. I suggest that listening to that show (archived on bobdancer.com) will improve your gambling knowledge --- and it will also give you insight into how successful gamblers think. That radio show is a HUGE resource for wannabe successful gamblers.Already mentioned but worth repeating. If I can't find a game where I have the advantage, I don't play. Period! If you want to play anyway, that's okay with me. But if you do, expect to be a net loser. That's unacceptable for me personally but it's 100% okay with me that you are willing to support the casinos. In fact, winning players NEED people who are willing to lose --- otherwise the casino wouldn't have enough money to pay us off. How have I personally adjusted? I'm scouting more. I'm playing less at casinos I used to play at (sometimes because the games have worsened --- sometimes because I'm not welcome.) When I find a new opportunity I hop on it. If it takes 20 hours to learn a new game, so be it. If I don't know it well enough, there's no sense in playing. I still practice on the computer before I go to the casino. I'll be playing Ultimate X later today. I'll go to this site and practice for some time. Unfortunately there's no software that corrects errors for this game, but at least the software here gets me used to summing up the multipliers and going back and forth between strategies.I also have cut back on my play and concentrated on other things. I'll be getting married later this month and I've been spending time on that relationship.It's not critical to me that there are good video poker games in the future. I hope so, because I do enjoy playing. But if profitable games don't exist at any time in the future, I'll do something else with my life. I doubt that playing a losing game of video poker will ever be attractive to me.   Bob           

[Tedlark]

Great post Bob, it is the kind of post that we all can learn from.

Congrats on your upcoming wedding and if we promise to keep billyjoe in line are we invited to the bachelor party? I'm thinking "Hangover IV"?

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] So, Bob, it would appear that you continue to be successful and profitable playing VP in casinos today. What, in your mind, has changed in the VP environment, other than the obvious pay table reductions, that has made it more difficult, as everybody seems to assert? Would you be willing to share with us recreational players some of the changes in YOUR VP play that you have had to make to adjust to today's VP environment? You don't need to give away secrets, but some generalities would be helpful.           Video poker has always been a cat-and-mouse game between players and casinos. Both sides want to be profitable. So both sides make adjustments. Casinos offering the same games and promotions they did 20 years ago would be giving away the store. Players who use the same strategies they did 20 years ago aren't going to keep up.           The biggest change has to do with education. More players know how to play well today. (I'm partly responsible for this, of course. You can blame me or give me a lot of credit. I have had heaps of both kinds of reactions.) That means that casinos make less off of the same games and promotions that they did previously so they tighten up. This may or may not be their smartest move --- but it's what's been happening.          Some of the biggest casinos are in financial peril. Giving players good offers in this environment is just not happening. That said, I still play at Caesars at the Seven Star Level several times over. There ARE opportunities there --- but they are not as obvious as they were before.            Insofar as what should players do, I recommend what DB call's "Bob Dancer's Anal Retentive System." What I think he means by that is: learn the games well, only play when you have the advantage, learn about promotions and take advantage of them, and only play when you are at your best. NEVER drink alcohol in a casino. Exercise and maintain my health so I can play long hours when the opportunity presents itself.Another part of that is to ignore all artificial stop win or stop loss systems. If you limit yourself to when you have the advantage, and only play within your bankroll, you never have to worry about such nonsense. Whether or not a machine has paid well in the past hour or two SAYS NOTHING about what it's going to pay in the next hour or two. The idea that you should switch from video poker to $5 slots if the video poker hasn't been paying off today strikes me as preposterous!I read everything I can find that I think my help me. (Actually forcing myself to write a weekly column, archived on bobdancer.com, teaches me a lot). There are posters on this site and on vpFREE (with little overlap) who are knowledgeable and I learn from them. There are posters on both sites who aren't worth reading. I ignore them. Your opinion on who's good and who's not may not be the same as mine. I certainly don't want to start big arguments. I study to create a radio show every week. I suggest that listening to that show (archived on bobdancer.com) will improve your gambling knowledge --- and it will also give you insight into how successful gamblers think. That radio show is a HUGE resource for wannabe successful gamblers.Already mentioned but worth repeating. If I can't find a game where I have the advantage, I don't play. Period! If you want to play anyway, that's okay with me. But if you do, expect to be a net loser. That's unacceptable for me personally but it's 100% okay with me that you are willing to support the casinos. In fact, winning players NEED people who are willing to lose --- otherwise the casino wouldn't have enough money to pay us off. How have I personally adjusted? I'm scouting more. I'm playing less at casinos I used to play at (sometimes because the games have worsened --- sometimes because I'm not welcome.) When I find a new opportunity I hop on it. If it takes 20 hours to learn a new game, so be it. If I don't know it well enough, there's no sense in playing. I still practice on the computer before I go to the casino. I'll be playing Ultimate X later today. I'll go to this site and practice for some time. Unfortunately there's no software that corrects errors for this game, but at least the software here gets me used to summing up the multipliers and going back and forth between strategies.I also have cut back on my play and concentrated on other things. I'll be getting married later this month and I've been spending time on that relationship.It's not critical to me that there are good video poker games in the future. I hope so, because I do enjoy playing. But if profitable games don't exist at any time in the future, I'll do something else with my life. I doubt that playing a losing game of video poker will ever be attractive to me.   Bob            [/QUOTE]
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Bob. I was happy to see that you did not cite any 'fixing' of the VP games by the casinos as a reason for anyone's diminished VP returns. A couple of observations on your post..
You mentioned your scorn at any type of Win/Loss Stop strategy. Since I have been an advocate of the use of some type of money management approach for the recreational gambler in several other posts, I will assume your comments are directed to me. I am happy to report that, yes, I use such a money management system, and yes, it has kept me profitable playing VP. That is not to say that I have never had losing sessions/trips - because I have. But for my VP play as a recreational gambler, it works for me, As far as playing some $5 slots, I do that too, as a way of increasing my Tier Credit earnings, since the slots award twice the credits as VP. I am picky about the type of slot, playing those that provide me with a reasonable return - the JoBs in the slot world, so to speak. I have actually won some sizeable slot jackpots, but the big score is not something I expect to happen in slots that often. I do not feel that earning Tier Credits, and reaching certain daily play thresholds in order to gain bonus Tier Credits, is "preposterous", especially if you are operating on a limited bankroll within a limited time gaming trip.

As a recreational gambler, I do not have the time to 'scout' casinos for games, as you suggest, during gaming visits. As a result, my VP play, as with others that have posted here, is confined to casinos with less than full pay paytables.

One thing does puzzle me, though. As am I, you state that you maintain a Seven Star status within Caesars. You go on to say that you never play VP without an advantage. If playing slots is "preposterous", and Caesars' properties have no full pay VP machines in Vegas, at least that I have found, how do you accomplish that ? You say that there are still 'opportunities' there. Since you are not referring to paytables, can you articulate a little further what that means? I will be in Vegas, at Caesars, in June, so I would really like to know.

I read where Ben Affleck was banned from playing Blackjack in Hard Rock Vegas for counting cards, which we all know is not illegal, but frowned upon by casinos as giving that player an unfair advantage. I better watch my step at Caesars in that area, I guess.   

Wishing you the best in life and VP. I am taking this year's Seven Star Signature Event as the cruise to New England/Canada out of New York in October. Perhaps I will see you and your new bride there.

[onemoretry]

I am picky about the type of slot, playing those that provide me with a reasonable return - the JoBs in the slot world, so to speak.
How do you know which slot will give you a reasonable return?

[BobDancer]

 

As a recreational gambler, I do not have the time to 'scout' casinos for games, as you suggest, during gaming visits. As a result, my VP play, as with others that have posted here, is confined to casinos with less than full pay paytables.

One thing does puzzle me, though. As am I, you state that you maintain a Seven Star status within Caesars. You go on to say that you never play VP without an advantage. If playing slots is "preposterous", and Caesars' properties have no full pay VP machines in Vegas, at least that I have found, how do you accomplish that ? You say that there are still 'opportunities' there. Since you are not referring to paytables, can you articulate a little further what that means? I will be in Vegas, at Caesars, in June, so I would really like to know.

 Wishing you the best in life and VP. I am taking this year's Seven Star Signature Event as the cruise to New England/Canada out of New York in October. Perhaps I will see you and your new bride there. [/QUOTE]

[BobDancer]

 

As a recreational gambler, I do not have the time to 'scout' casinos for games, as you suggest, during gaming visits. As a result, my VP play, as with others that have posted here, is confined to casinos with less than full pay paytables.

One thing does puzzle me, though. As am I, you state that you maintain a Seven Star status within Caesars. You go on to say that you never play VP without an advantage. If playing slots is "preposterous", and Caesars' properties have no full pay VP machines in Vegas, at least that I have found, how do you accomplish that ? You say that there are still 'opportunities' there. Since you are not referring to paytables, can you articulate a little further what that means? I will be in Vegas, at Caesars, in June, so I would really like to know.

 Wishing you the best in life and VP. I am taking this year's Seven Star Signature Event as the cruise to New England/Canada out of New York in October. Perhaps I will see you and your new bride there. [/QUOTE]Sorry my last post was "blank." That was unintentional.You definitely have the time to scout --- using vpfree2 and other sources. And keeping records is important as well.It's not the return of the game that counts. When casinos offers are based on theoreticals, if lesser games have higher theoreticals it can be a positive situation. For example if a 98% game is considered a 95% game theo-wise, then it's possible that your "show up money" will be more than your expected loss. That's all I'm going to say about it --- but if you're clever enough, that's enough. Bonnie and I considered the New England cruise --- but that's in the middle of a semester of Bob Dancer classes so we decided instead of cruising out of New Orleans in December.Bob

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=BobDancer] 

As a recreational gambler, I do not have the time to 'scout' casinos for games, as you suggest, during gaming visits. As a result, my VP play, as with others that have posted here, is confined to casinos with less than full pay paytables.

One thing does puzzle me, though. As am I, you state that you maintain a Seven Star status within Caesars. You go on to say that you never play VP without an advantage. If playing slots is "preposterous", and Caesars' properties have no full pay VP machines in Vegas, at least that I have found, how do you accomplish that ? You say that there are still 'opportunities' there. Since you are not referring to paytables, can you articulate a little further what that means? I will be in Vegas, at Caesars, in June, so I would really like to know.

 Wishing you the best in life and VP. I am taking this year's Seven Star Signature Event as the cruise to New England/Canada out of New York in October. Perhaps I will see you and your new bride there. [/QUOTE]Sorry my last post was "blank." That was unintentional.You definitely have the time to scout --- using vpfree2 and other sources. And keeping records is important as well.It's not the return of the game that counts. When casinos offers are based on theoreticals, if lesser games have higher theoreticals it can be a positive situation. For example if a 98% game is considered a 95% game theo-wise, then it's possible that your "show up money" will be more than your expected loss. That's all I'm going to say about it --- but if you're clever enough, that's enough. Bonnie and I considered the New England cruise --- but that's in the middle of a semester of Bob Dancer classes so we decided instead of cruising out of New Orleans in December.Bob

---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks again for responding, Bob.

With regard to vpfree2.com, I have never found the info to be that current, especially in CET properties where they have made significant changes to their VP machine inventory.

And, yes, I do get show-up money in offers from both CET and MGM, where I am a NOIR, so I get your point regarding closing that expected loss gap by using that FreePlay. I actually find the MGM NOIR offers currently to be more attractive than CET. When I visit a place like Vegas, which has an inventory of properties from both groups, I always exploit the offers available to me.

Best of luck to you and Bonnie, and have a great 7Star cruise.   

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] I am picky about the type of slot, playing those that provide me with a reasonable return - the JoBs in the slot world, so to speak.
How do you know which slot will give you a reasonable return?[/QUOTE]
Well - that's a toughie. Mostly trial and error, I guess. Usually, though, the huge progressive top prize slots return poorly at the bottom end. The regular return of your bet, with the occasional extra kick in credits, is what I usually try to find if I am playing purely to reach a daily play plateau quicker.

[olds442jetaway]

Best wishes on starting a new chapter in your life Bob with someone who is special to you. I didn't know until recently that you were into Square Dancing. Now I understand Ted's reply some time ago to take up among other things Square Dancing if you become frustrated playing video poker. When I grew up in the 1950's and 1960's, everything was cars, Rock and Roll, the beach, and of course girls. There was a saying going around that " Square Dancing is for Squares". I know now that is not true and Square Dancing is for Hotelling's T- Squares. Good luck and continued success and happiness....Olds...

[jetermacaw]

Thanks for posting Bob, any and all info is always welcome. I read every post from everyone on this site, any small or large piece of knowledge gained is always a benefit. You don't always have to agree with what everyone posts, you just have to absorb it and then use it to your advantage.