Video Poker Forum

Random Rewards, as featured in this month's VP.com contest, is certainly an interesting and challenging VP exercise. But would you sit down to play it in a casino?
In other games that have been featured that involve paying a little extra, usually a credit a toss, for some bonus feature, the impact of the bonus on the overall game return has been more or less readily apparent.
Now I've only played a couple times and not done any outside research. But it seems to me that what you're buying with your extra credit for Random Rewards is pretty much a pig in a poke. Without knowing what the bonuses are likely to be, there's no way to calculate an expected value; and even with some idea the calculations would be extremely complicated (though I'm sure the good people who design VP machines know the precise answer).
It all seems to be part of the trend toward making VP more like the slots in terms of increasing variance. Yet as Darse Billings says, you can't casually give up EV just for more variance.
 
Now I've been known to run a few bucks through Dean Martin's Wild Party, one of the higher-variance slots out there, but only $0.30 at a time, to use comp play credits I can't get a decent VP machine to accept on 2- and 3-credit reel slots, etc.
 
I guess I'm just used to the idea that when I sit down to play VP I'm going to have some idea of what my expected return is going to be. It doesn't seem to me like you get that with Random Rewards, intriguing as the hand-by-hand strategy considerations may be.
 
What do the rest of you all think?

 But would you sit down to play it in a casino?
 

hell to the NO!

If you play a lower variance game like BP with decent payback, factor in random progressives for FL,FH,quads and SF. Makes for an interesting mix. Being able to see what the RR is before you hold and re-draw, gives one the option to hold differently if the designated hold isn't paying back up to snuff. Example: lo pair with a 4 card FL. FL RR payback is lower than normal so you can hold the low pair instead. just some minor strategy adjustments. Also, just my take on it. I'm not a big fan of hybrid VP games anyhows but this has a few strategy opportunities to it. Compare this to dream card, ultimate X, wheel poker or ultimate 4-of-a-kind? Many times, you're forced to try and land quads just to get a chance at the bonus. Tough call.

well, Is it  slots or video poker? How do I know the casino cant set the bonus rate - cold --> keep all bonus's below 200%, medium - random bonus's up to 300%, Hot - minimum bonus always over 150% normal...etc.
The bonus rate could end up to be much more important that stragtegy - and thats no longer VP but a hot slot machine.

Tom, with a slot, you have no control as to the outcome of the final hand/hold. It's very doubtful the manufacturer would put out a game that isn't fair or that a casino would risk losing their license to go tinkering with the RNG. Playing such a game puts you at odds to begin with since it's unlikely they'll assign a positive return to the paytable. Its knowing what to hold, when to hold it, and hope that re-draw brings what you ask. Kinda like the contest here!

Tom puts it bluntly but I think echoes some of my concerns. One, without knowing the range of possible RRs it's impossible to know the EV of the machine just from the paytable; two, even knowing the range of possible RRs it would be extremely difficult (imho) to work out the EV from the paytable. That makes Random Rewards different from any other VP game, at least any other that's been featured in VP.com contests.
 
One possible silver lining is that a game like RR might be a "gateway drug" to get more slot players/casino patrons into VP. But I kinda doubt that: there are those who seek variance for variance's sake and those who seek EV for EV's, and their bankroll's, sake.
 
Not to open any cans of worms here but wonder if Fa la la la la... la la la... la. couldn't tell us how to tell when an RR machine is "hot."

And therein lies the beauty (evil?) of the game and it's randomness. It might pay back just 5 more coins than the normal paytable would or assign a lower than normal, who knows? Eeee, how to guesstimate EV for such a game? How could you possibly since the RR's perhand are totally random. Even given a window of amounts, you couldn't possibly get an accurate EV without that +/- % fluctuation (IMO). It is a hybrid VP game and thus, created more for the recreational (read tourist) VP player as opposed to the AP. Hey, Dancer likes QQ's. He doesn't care too much for wheel though and understandably so.