Are These Games Rigged?

[markinca]

One big problem is that to prove something is rigged often requires some terribly, terribly bad results. Such bad results where it's actually easier to believe that the person is "stretching the truth".


Not just terribly bad results, but terribly bad results over a very long period (say, 4 or 5 royal cycles, at least). We're talking, at least in the 150k+ hand range.

These people talk about a few thousand hands' worth of play and want to make conclusions about riggedness based on that. It'd be laughable if it weren't also so sad.

[Tedlark]

stevel96a1 -

Have you given any thought to filing a report with the State of New Jersey Casino Control Commission? I believe their office is located at: The Arcade Building, Tennessee Ave & The Boardwalk, Atlantic City, New Jersey 08401. They are open and staffed Monday thru Friday 8:00 am to 4:00 pm. The office is closed on State Holidays though.

I hope you find this information to be helpful.

[wildman49]

That's the problem with rec players who say they understand the math - they don't really understand the math.

They read on some website that quads come every 400 hands or so, and they play a 800 hand session with no quads, and think to themselves, OMG THIS MACHINE IS RIGGED.

Then they go to another casino and get 3 quads in a 400 hand session and say, AHH THIS IS HOW VP IS SUPPOSED TO BE, even though if you take both of their sessions together they're running at exactly average. Mark, This is so very true. I play 40,000 hands a month at the casino. Any game and or machine can run hot or cold in the short term. Most don't realize how many hands you need to play to average out the 423 hands per four of a kind. Many Recreational players don't understand long term is more the a few trips!

[billryan]

I hear people say they have not hit a royal in six years and others point to it as proof the games are rigged. Later you find out the person plays a couple times a year.

[olds442jetaway]

I play about 80,000 hands a month at the casino. I used to think the machines were rigged, but now I'm not so sure. When I thought about what long term is and it can be longer than one's lifetime and close to infinity, yes the math will come around eventually. After three stints of 600k hands or so without a Royal in just the last few years, I was pretty much convinced they were rigged. At least where I was playing. Thinking back though, people around me were hitting tough hands and Royals at about the same rate as they always did. In fact, one lady older than me who plays almost as much as I do is ahead for this year and last. All she plays are DDB games with paytables below 99 percent just so she can get the points. It was pretty frustrating though seeing her hit 15 Royals to my one during those ultra cold cycles I have been in. The bottom line is I still try and play the best paytable I can find, but attribute luck to a huge part of how we do in vp over out lifetime.

[FloridaPhil]

In all the years I have been playing VP, I have never seen anything to lead me to think any video poker machines were intentionally rigged.   Royals sometimes take a while to appear, but they eventually show.  Our long term results seem about right compared to the games we have to play.  Some years are better, some worse.I'm not sure what we were witnessing in AC.  Most all the games in this casino are old and in bad repair.  What we reported happened on numerous machines and at different times.  I can see no reason why the Borgata would need to rig their machines.  The odds are more than low enough to pay their bills.  We reported what we saw for the benefit of forum members.  What you do with the information is your business.I will say that quads at the Borgata were scarce for both of us.  This does seem strange, but not unusual.  Sometimes that happens no matter where you play.  My personal beliefs as to cause of the reported bad returns in AC are due to downgraded game odds, poor machine maintenance and the proliferation of high variance games.  Until someone comes up with a video or some other form of proof, we will have to assume that is the case.   All I can say about AC is this.  There are so many wonderful places to play video poker these days.  Why would you want to play where things are broken and worn out?  If you live in the Northeast, it won't be long until you will have a nice new casino in your backyard.  I would wait.

[Carcounter]

Not here to defend the Borgata, in fact they have seemingly decreased cashback percentages and slot dollars since they have become 100% MGM. However, I have played here since 2003 and have kept records since 2005. My results have been right in line with math expectations, actually a little better as I am slightly positive here overall since 2005. This is due to being a little over-royaled. The Royals have come pretty much on schedule and in some cases much better than I could have hoped for. In the first year and a half after the casino opened, I hit 3 top line royals on the 9/6 JOB multi strikes for 8k apiece. Those multi strikes are still there 15 years later and I recently hit a 4k royal on the third line after holding 2 cards. I have had years where I lost 10-12k and years where I was 15k positive. I also have never noticed a discard coming back as the same card as Phil has mentioned. I will look very closely from now on, but I'm sure this is something I would have noticed as often as I play there.

[Carcounter]

Played 2 hours yesterday at Borgata. .50 SDB and 9/6 JOB multi stikes. Lost $100, but never saw a discard come back. I'll keep looking.

[ravenbynight111]

Come om guys anything in this country can be fixed. Pre 2007 video poker was like stealing if you knew what you were doing.As far as the gaming commission they know who butters there bread.Just like football basketball all have had incidents of corruption. Even state lottery's has had some issues. Corporations only care about there bottom line.Me and my wife use to go to Vegas 7 or 8 times a year pre 2007 players had a chance, been twice in the last 8 years.

[New2vp]

Come om guys anything in this country can be fixed. Pre 2007 video poker was like stealing if you knew what you were doing.As far as the gaming commission they know who butters there bread.Just like football basketball all have had incidents of corruption. Even state lottery's has had some issues. Corporations only care about there bottom line.Me and my wife use to go to Vegas 7 or 8 times a year pre 2007 players had a chance, been twice in the last 8 years.Great observations!  By the evidence that you have personally experienced, the corporations evidently were not greedy before 2007.  And in your vast experience since then (twice in 8 years), you have been able to realize things have changed dramatically for the worse.  Absolutely incredible insight!