Video Poker Forum

So I arrived at my home casino and when I hit the floor I realized that all 4 of my STP machines were reading "out of service". I was dazed and confused. What was I going to do. I was able to find other games to play and actually had a pretty good outing as a result. About an hour before I left I was playing next to one of my banks of machines that was off-line when the slot attendant came by with either someone from auditing or the CCC to place the machine back in service. I saw the security tape for the chips, I saw some auditing checks being done etc. Nothing to fantastic for me I've plumbed these machines before. Not too much to see. But when I asked the tech if he was putting them back into service he told me yes and went on to say (unsolicited) why they were taken out of service. My fear was that 1. they were going to remove the dollar denomination and 2. that they were going to weaken the pay tables (35 coin FH) like I've seen on many of the new All Star machines that were recently installed. Neither of those things were the reason. I do believe they were changing one pay table and they were making a change to Joker Poker removing the 1000 coin 5OAK and replacing it with a 4000 coin 5OAK. He said "that's what the players want".

So I told him that I was not happy that after the recent reconfiguration that the casino had 8+ STP machines that offered 1 dollar 10 handed games and now it was down to 3 machines. I told him that I can't do that and it probably meant I was no longer going to gamble there. I really didn't expect much of a response. After all it was a tech. He asked me if I wanted to talk to his boss. I said sure. 15 minutes later the slot manager came down and we had a chat.

I explained to him that the reconfiguration was removing my favorite denomination (dollars) from my favorite game (10 handed STP). What he said next blew my mind. Understand that it was up until now my believe that a casino floor is a highly regulated place. My understanding is that the casino (casino manager) ruled the casino floor with an iron fist. Every machine set up a certain way, certain denominations certain games. All results evaluated and changes made based on results of the casino floor. I believed this is how they controlled profit and loss. Not to mention their compliance with the CCC to be accurate so that any audit activities would be in line. That at least is how I thought it was run. So his response to me. "We don't have any dollar 10 handed STP here. We haven't had it for a long time. it's a liability thing" Do you know that that machine could pay (I interrupted him), "yes, It could pay 400k for a 10 handed dealt RF on dollars with a 10x multiplier, yes I do know that". He paused. A little surprised at what I just said. I then responded "not only did you have 10 handed dollar STP right here were we are standing, but you have 3 of them out at (Michael Charlie, that's the name of the section) right now. He looked at his slot tech who confirmed to him what I had just said as he had run out there during my initial conversation with him to verify the 10 handed dollars and the fact that one of the machines was missing DDB after the reconfiguration. At this point the whole thing got a little awkward. There I was standing face to face with the guy who was responsible for just about every machine on the casino floor, who I thought would have my gameplay stats on the back of his eyelids but yet I was talking to a guy who didn't even know what denominations were on what games on his own floor. We talked for a few more minutes about the situation. I conveyed the fact that they need to add the denominations back to the machines to give the players more choice and fix the missing games. Well my return to the casino found the denominations re-added to the machines, the missing game re-instated and an invitation to join his boss for dinner to talk about customer satisfaction. I'm trying to work it out so I can attend this dinner but we'll see. If I do I'll share the experience. In any event it was a real eye opener to me that things really are loosy goosy when it comes to these games. At least in this casino they are.

I'm sure there are others with wild stories about their experiences with casino staff. Feel free to share your experience. It just helps to paint a fuller picture.

Roveer

Sounds like you will have a good end result here. Their answers do not surprise me at all. Last year I spoke to a solt manager who thought all of the vp machines were class 2 at Mohegan Sun. Did some digging and verification and found out at least that they are class 3. I later found out he didn't even know the difference.

  I'm glad they were able to accomodate you roveer; I doubt us players in the Chicago area would get that level of cooperation from a CET executive at Horseshoe Hammond or even Harrah's Joliet either.    Now go out and hit that 10X 1o handed royal and make them cringe a little.   Good luck to you too Olds.

I will share a very recent incident. I play at the Riviera Black Hawk in Colorado - Now called Monarch as it was purchased by Monarch Gaming. They have 4 multi-game vp machines in their high limit area. All games are single line at the $1, $5 and $10 level. They have HORRENDOUS pay tables. 6/5, 7/5 and 8/5 - even at the $10 level. Last Friday, I was an invited guest for the Colorado Avalanche vs Boston Bruins in the Monarch suite and the host that night was the Director of Slot Operations. I took the opportunity to explain to him that no self respecting video poker player would play those terrible pay tables. 24 hours later, all 4 machines have 9/6 Double Bonus on them at all 3 denoms. A small victory for all vp players!

  I could have gone for a nice piece of prime rib from Binions tomorrow night billyjoe. Or Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

  Last Friday, I was an invited guest for the Colorado Avalanche vs Boston Bruins in the Monarch suite and the host that night was the Director of Slot Operations. I took the opportunity to explain to him that no self respecting video poker player would play those terrible pay tables. 24 hours later, all 4 machines have 9/6 Double Bonus on them at all 3 denoms. A small victory for all vp players!

Well done on this, but did you end up playing the improved paytables and if so, how'd you do?ROVEER:   I can almost feel the awkwardness and tension you must have experienced standing face to face with this clueless "suit", when in reality he should have all the answers and should, just like you pointed out, know just what the hell he has on the floor.    I am going to add to your points and say, in my 4 plus years playing in AC every 3-4 weeks for 5-7 days at a time, MOST of the casino "suits" i have spoken to have been supremely aloof when it comes to their inventory of games......they really do no know much of anything, or else they clam up.    Your experience only surprises me a little because this is HARRAHS we are talking about, and I did previously hold them to a higher standard than the rest of AC (except the Borgata)     THE ONLY casino execs/management that has been helpful and informative to me in any useful or insightful way has actually been several individuals at the Trump properties in AC ( a couple guys at the Plaza and one really chatty guy at the TAJ)....Billyjoe nailed it however, in saying that the casinos want to drastically curtail the HUGE hits they might take on VP games.....this is 100% true, and especially in AC where a $400 K  hit on video Poker could actually possibly cost people their jobs.....I previously stated before that the biggest reason casinos phased out a lot of Video Poker and replaced with penny slots is that the large routine payouts from Royals and certain premium hands occur much more frequent than the top jackpots on a typical 1 cent denom slot machine, not to mention the obvious return percent advantage and dollars per spin advantage a slot machine holds over VP.     CASINOS are hurting (compared to what they used to see and do).....their greed overtook them and they now PINE for the days of yesteryear when the profits just materialized no matter what they did or how stupid or wasteful they were!    That's all gone now....what is left is a uber competitive environment, and it is just FAR TOO difficult for even advantage players to ALWAYS find positive return circumstances and situations......

I am not a "high roller" by any means, but I play $1 single-line VP at Borgata and Harrah's AC. My wife and I have been going to AC for the last 3 years at least twice a month.

That being said, my experience in AC has been that VP players are not welcomed by casino hosts. The Borgata hosts will pick up my charges and will comp me meals, but none will "commit" to me. I am always told to speak to a new host during each trip because I don't play enough (lol). I guess playing $1 VP for 10 hours a day for three days per trip isn't enough.

As far as Harrah's hosts go, I have found nothing but incompetent hosts that double talk me. None of them seem to know what they are doing and I can't believe Harrah's operates like this. If it wasn't for their new pay tables bringing me back, I would never leave the Water Club.

Royals to all,

yankees4ever31   

  I could have gone for a nice piece of prime rib from Binions tomorrow night billyjoe. Or Friday, Saturday or Sunday.
Next time, buddy - on me. I GOTTA wait for the snow to melt up there, though.

24 hours later, all 4 machines have 9/6 Double Bonus on them at all 3 denoms. A small victory for all vp players!

It was, indeed, a small victory.

But,while 9/6 double bonus is better than some of the pay scales it replaced, it has returns ranging from 96.38% to 98.14%, depending on other elements in the pay table, and would never be my "go to" game.