2019 VP

[FAA]

What newbies, Olds? This place is an echo chamber!

[Tedlark]

I like pizza, but pizza in Vegas sucks. Should I eat the bad pizza, all the while reminiscing about the good old days, when delicious pizza was everywhere.
It's hard having the discipline to only eat good pizza. Lets face it, pizza is addicting.

A couple times a year, I vacation and again it is pizza based. I could travel to places with outstanding pizza, but I'm friendly with a place that serves mediocre pizza. It's okay though, because heck- I'm eating pizza.

Pizza has gone hill the last few years and there are very few places left with really good pizza. It's important to tell everyone the pizza is bad, because no one wants to spend all their money on bad pizza.
I realize some experts only eat tasty pizza but shame on them. Always talking about the good stuff like that. I wish someone would explain how we can enjoy bad pizza better.

ROTFLMAO.....twice.

[FloridaPhil]

Phil there is something in your speech I don't understand. You tell new players to learn the game so they can play at least 99% accurate. But you also tell them it is ok to change the strategy when going for a royal because losing a few cents a hand will never hurt. If you are trying to teach all these newbies you should never tell them to change strategy. I know you only believe in the short term results but anyone who takes the time to learn to play at least 99% accurate is in it for the long term. You included.

What I am talking about is playing VP for maximum entertainment. What you are talking about is maximizing profit. For me, these goals don't necessarily mean playing the same way. Is it more entertaining to play $5 9/6 Jacks all day or quarter 98.9% Deuces Wild? That depends on who you are asking. 9/6 Jacks is the mathematically better game. It's also boring as hell. Playing $25 a hand comes with it's own demons.

I get the idea that a professional player plays the game with the best return regardless of what feels good. I don't think someone would spend their lives sitting in a smoky casino all night just for fun. I also get the fact that the same professional will play computer perfect even if it means he has to memorize a book of exceptions and play error free forever. That person is not playing the same as a quarter Deuces Wild player who just wants to sit next to his wife and enjoy the company.

What we need on this forum is a clear understanding that video poker players don't all play for the same reasons. I can tell you how to get more royals. There is no secret to this. It may cost you. It also may make you a winner on a day when you would not have been playing according to the computer. Long term you will lose more. If losing 4 cents a hand for a chance at a $1,000 jackpot is worth it to you, who is to say that is wrong?

I think the right way to teach players is to explain the math behind the strategy. Instead of berating them for going against it, let them know the cost so they can decide for themselves what they want the game to be. Burning players at the stake because they don't play like a computer is not helping anyone.

Let's stop bickering about something that is inherently human. We are not all professional gamblers and we all don't want to be. Some of us like eating bad pizza.

[Eduardo]

I haven't ever seen someone "burned at the stake" here for not playing like a computer, or even for advocating deviations from perfect play with a proper understanding of the consequences. You want to hold 2 to the royal? I don't think anyone here actually has a problem with that.

I have only seen people criticized when they offer expectations that go against what the mathematics of the game dictate.

There is nothing wrong with going for royals whenever you feel like it. It's your money. If you want to hold 2 to the royal and your analysis of the loss by doing so is incorrect, people will correct you and there is nothing wrong with that either, because it might impact other people's expectations in making the hold.

[La-Dave]

Phil --

"We are here to talk about enjoying VP as entertainment."

I signed up for an account here just to come and post a response to you. You're 1000% right. Everytime you explain this, somebody just doesn't get it. Well, my wife and I DO get it, we see it exactly like you do. We live in Louisiana, there's casino's all around us, and we're learning to factor in comp's to the total equation.

I play live poker, my wife plays several different games (Slots, 3 Card Poker, VP). I've spent years learning to play Texas Hold Em "right", positive Expected Value, over long periods of time. My wife plays games where the casino has an edge, but that's what she enjoys. But she also gets comps!
So we can drive a couple hours to play, we eat free, free rooms at all the Biloxi casinos, and we break even between us for the year.

I'm not gonna play Texas Hold Em professionally, and my wife's not gonna play perfect VP 12 hours a day, just to make a living by beating the house. This is fun, not a job. If we can have fun for cheap (or free), enjoying places like Beau Rivage, IP, or the Cosmo or Venetian in Vegas, THAT'S the goal.

Casino's are supposed to be FUN.

[FloridaPhil]

Casino's are supposed to be FUN.

No one here is disputing math. What we are disputing is that we should always use math to make our playing decisions. That is flat wrong. Players should know the math. They should also have a clear goal of some kind. Only then can they make informed decisions on how they choose to play the game.

An informed player knows the math. That same player may choose to go against it to gain a particular result. We are not a bunch of computerized robots, we are human beings with desires that don't always equate with profit. I know playing positive games will let me play longer with my money. I also know playing them will give me the best chance of making a profit. If we had those games available we would play them. The only way that is going to happen is if we play in Vegas or risk tens of thousands of dollars of our hard earned money. We would rather pay a little and play quarters without the risk. It's the same thing with Royals. To us, paying 4 cents a hand to see more royals is worth it.

If your goal in VP is to make a profit at all cost, do exactly what the experts tell you to do. If it's something else or you don't wish to pay that price, understand the math and adjust your play accordingly. In VP, fun and profit are not always the same thing.

[New2vp]

Hey Eduardo, Happy New Year!

I think there may be a lot of people that would be willing to supply Phil and his wife with as many pictures of quarter royal flushes as he wants and even pay him $1000 for each one in exchange for the $1600+ that 4 cents a hand totals up to over the average holding-two-the-royal cycle.

Paraphrasing what he said, "Opinions vary as to what is entertainment." If losing an extra nearly $1700 while waiting for $1000 royals is his thing … and says he understands the math but doesn't understand why others may disagree, who is he hurting?

If there are people reading this forum who are influenced by his writings, chances are good that they would simply be misled in some other manner if he ceased his stubbornly, repetitive, self-congratulatory, rationalizing posts, so I wouldn't worry that much about his effect on others.

Good luck on keeping your New Year's resolutions! And see you on the flip side!

[Tedlark]

I missed Eduardo's resolutions, was one to only eat better pizza in 2019?

[case]

$1600 dollars to win $1000. Excellent post New2vp!

Happy New Year everyone.

[FloridaPhil]

$1600 dollars to win $1000.

You can't put "expected" return in your wallet. So far, my wife and I have hit three $1,000 royals with our 4 cent investment.

Here's the funny part about this forum. When an expert gets lucky playing by the math, he writes a book about it. When an amateur goes against the math and gets lucky, it's heresy. Math can only "predict" what happens. Anything can and will happen in VP.

Playing VP by the math definitely gives you the best chance of making a profit. It never guarantees it. Whoever it is that is playing VP whether he/she be a professional or an amateur, that person is still gambling. The world is full of broke gamblers who believed they couldn't lose.

A professional player does everything he can to gain an edge on the casino. He is gambling that his results will match the math and the risk is worth the reward. I have no problem with that. We don't believe in taking big risks, so we remove as much risk as possible. We like hitting more royals, so we think 4 cents a hand is a good investment. So far it's paid off for us.