RNG Questions

[billryan]

Because everything else in life comes with a guarantee or because now that you've given up on CS, you'd have nothing else to post about?

[Webman]

If the experts will add these words to their claims, I wouldn't have to continually point this out. There is NO can't lose video poker game or strategy. As long as players know this, I'm fine with the rest of what they say.

"Continually" being the key word here. This is the problem.

How bout this... the next time Bob Dancer shows up in the Recreational Forum and says there is a "can't lose video poker game or strategy," I give you permission to respond to him 5, 10, even 100 times demanding a disclaimer until he relents. But until that happens, you are not to bring him up again ( by name, as "the expert" or "a very famous author") because your point has already been made so very, very many times.

[FloridaPhil]

Because everything else in life comes with a guarantee or because now that you've given up on CS, you'd have nothing else to post about?

Webman, I can think of no reason why Mr. Dancer would ever post on the Recreational Forum. The only reason Bill Ryan posts here is to instigate arguments. He should be banned from this forum. As long as he continues to attack my posts, I will continue to post my rebuttals. I have not posted on the Strategy Forum since I agreed not to. If you want to continue refereeing these arguments, allow Bill to instigate them.

If you want me to stop responding when I am attacked, you will have to ban me. You have the power to fix this. The choice is up to you. Whatever you decide is OK with me.

[Webman]

I would like for both you and Bill Ryan to stop bringing up Bob Dancer in these threads. How is that?
Dancer has nothing to do with Recreational video poker, at least how you have defined it.

A test of wills... first person to fail the test gets a 3 week vacation (which really means we all get a vacation, of sorts). Let the games begin!

[OTABILL]

I would like for both you and Bill Ryan to stop bringing up Bob Dancer in these threads. How is that?
Dancer has nothing to do with Recreational video poker, at least how you have defined it.

A test of wills... first person to fail the test gets a 3 week vacation (which really means we all get a vacation, of sorts). Let the games begin!

[notes1]

i do not think i have posted in this section or mentioned bob dancer's name in years, so i will bring him up. just like some will stop at nothing to see another person who used to be in the casino business, tax returns, i would be interested to see dancer's. not from years ago, but more recent.

don't know his age, but guessing he may be in his 70's, and with reduced opportunities to make money from VP, i wonder how his income has been affected, over the last 10-12 years. if there are indeed ways to make money playing from vp, i would think it may be a younger man's game. scouting out potential favorable situations, going between casinos and playing long sessions (mistake free) might be harder now.

believe i remember (my memory may be off) him posting a couple of years ago, that in his estimation, there were maybe only a couple dozen players who could make a decent living in current environment. wonder what the estimation is now.

as to the rest of the arguments that seem to endlessly go on, i have no idea how the machines operate/are they fair/random, but i know i do not place anymore trust in casinos than any other business. does one think casinos have as many regulators as financial institutions, auto emission manufacturers, food processors or any of the many other businesses that have been found guilty of misdeeds.

most folks who go to the casino hoping to win, but inside, they know they are going lose and play for entertainment. it is not practical, for many reasons, to travel to nevada or bet bigger, to find a positive game.

over the years, i have read less and less posts from folks who claim to beat the casinos. we do not need a constant reminder from a poster who feels it is his calling in life to save everyone from evils of gambling. it is getting old and boring. the world is full of lots of temptations, ways to lose your money or become addicted to almost anything. it is time for folks to take responsibility for their own actions.

[FloridaPhil]

we do not need a constant reminder from a poster who feels it is his calling in life to save everyone from evils of gambling.

This is a totally fair summary of the current state of video poker. As a Recreational Player, expecting to win on a daily basis knowing you won't long term is being honest with yourself. I realize I have been overly repetitive in my comments. I have a negative view of people who promote video poker as a profit center. Most members don't seem to share those feelings. A gambling forum doesn't need someone like me constantly reminding them of their potential losses.

Video poker is an interesting human activity. On one hand, it's an enjoyable pastime. I can play video poker free on the Internet for hours and be entertained. When I play the game in a casino for money, it changes character. It becomes a battle between a multi billion dollar industry that does everything it can to clean out my wallet and my desire to go home with an extra $1,000 in my pocket.

For me at least, this is a purely mental war. After a couple of bad trips, I make plans to quit the game. I think about all the things I can buy with my bankroll. After all those years of saving up my cash, I could buy a nice car with the money. A week or two goes by and I am back in the game. It wouldn't be a problem for me to quit if the game wasn't so much damn fun.

The list of things we can't talk about on this forum is getting pretty long. Now we are adding fictitious names to the list. Anyone want to talk about dogs? My puppy likes TV commercials.

I got the message. I'm not sure everyone did.

[notes1]

fp, i think your reply was well thought out.
-you have posted many times that you play VP for entertainment
-many posts that the casino you play at (me too) has NO positive games, at the denomination you choose to play. comps and free play are minuscule compared to the past.
-many posts indicating you have reached a certain level of financial security. in other words, you are not playing with the rent money.

so, i ask you this, among the many entertainment options available to you, cars/golf/fishing etc, is there not an expense? go out to eat, travel, buy crap, all cost money. i believe this is not only yours, but the problem for many of us older players. the days of playing with modest losses or actually coming out ahead periodically are over. that was 10 years ago and not likely to return. we are now in the new reality. next time you walk into your local casino, just look around and realize, most everyone there is a long time money loser, EVERYONE.

there are no hidden secrets, no gimmicks, no method of play, that will change the fact that most all local casinos offer no games, that over the long term, we will come out a winner. you know all this. yet, you have fallen into the trap of reading posts from certain folks who either live or are willingly to limit their play, only to a very small, extremely limited market, where there may be a mathematical chance of coming out ahead. and, to possibly come out ahead, this may include turning entertainment into a job. do you really want to spend your time selling the free garbage we get on the internet?

we belonged to a nice country club for more than 25 years, until i lost my interest in the game. it cost money, just like most entertainment options. cost was $7-10k per year. now, i spend that money and sometimes more, donating to the indians. i have accepted it. this is my entertainment and i do not wish to do the things that are necessary to reduce that expense. i want to play when i want to play, i do not want to get on a plane everytime i want to play, i want to play the games i want to play. now, if the casinos continue to make downward adjustments, i will adjust, as i have already done. i play less, they do not get anymore money from me, than i am willingly to give them.

so, you can continue advocating gimmicks, look for non existent ways to beat the new reality, quit playing or just accept things the way they are.

finally, i do not see things changing in the casino anytime soon, until there is a recession. more jobs, more income, higher net worth from stock market gains are all contributing to the casinos increasing their hold and giving players less.

[olds442jetaway]

I think the above hit it on the head for me. If I play vp for fun here or my wolf vp program, after awhile, I fall asleep while playing. In the casino, it’s me the little guy trying to take money from a big business who like posted above, wants to clean out my wallet. I know most of the time I will lose, but love those hit and run days or hit, quit, and enjoy the on the house amenities. If a local worthwhile charity ran the casino, I wouldn’t have the heart to play. Many years ago, my church ran the money wheel as one of the attractions at the church carnival. It was set up so the church would ultimately win 50 percent of the bets. I played it one time and no matter what just kept winning. Ten minutes later my five bucks turned into 90. I finally just quit and donated all of the money I won back to the church. I felt really crummy inside that I won. They even announced on the PA system that I did this. I remember hearing clapping from the people there. I turned around and there was the Priest. He bought me a dog and soda from his own pocket. I didn ‘t want to take it, but he insisted. Then he talked me into helping run the money wheel for next year’s carnival. At the end of the day I felt good. That was the important thing.

[FloridaPhil]

I'm glad there are a few members of this forum who play video poker for the same reasons I do. Playing for profit is a totally different game than I am playing. What bugs me are those members who won't recognize that fact. I know there are more of us than the players who complain the loudest when we talk about having fun over profit. We never hear from the majority because they are afraid of being ridiculed.

I don't remember a time when video poker games were positive. I came into the game seriously around 2005, long after the so called good times. I've been to Vegas, Reno and AC. I intentionally went there to find and play positive games. When I found some, I played them. My results were the same as the 97% games I play at home. I couldn't play them long term, so I can't comment on what may have happened if I did.

My issue on this forum has always been the intolerance of Recreational play strategies. We are allowed to play any way we wish as long as we don't talk about it. In the mean time, the "for profit only" players can make any claims and statements they want with no disagreement allowed. This is blatantly unfair. To remedy this situation I asked for a separate forum thinking it would solve the problem. The strategy bullies followed and we are where we are today.

This problem will not be solved until the management of this forum stops allowing Recreational Forum posts to be trolled. All we want is a forum free from self appointed experts. If I want to increase my bet when a blond walks by, what business is it of anyone else? As long as I don't claim that strategy will beat the casino, who cares? If it produces a short term profit, it's not a threat to anyone or anything but my own bankroll.

Until then, I will continue to play as I do. I will break even or make a profit in well over 50% of my trips. At the end of the year, I will have played over 250,000 hands of VP for less money than it costs me to play golf or buy season tickets to the Dolphin's games. I think that's a bargain.