CS Revisited

[FAA]

Wish I took the CS strategy today, fully committed. Jump out of the puddle! Brilliant metaphor. I got stuck in that Chilean miners hole today. Just glad it didn't cost me thirty three days on top of the $100.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]So you think casinos would pull vp off the floor if everyone played it at well below the optimum strategy.
Seriously? What's next, telling us casinos fear martingale players?
You take a game where you are already at a disadvantage, add to the
disadvantage and think you've found a game killing strategy.[/quote]This is a legitimate point.  Casinos need to make enough money on each video poker machine to pay the overhead of the game. CS players don't win more than max coin players, they lose less.   If everyone played 25 cents a hand, there wouldn't be enough money run through the machines to pay for the game.  Casinos need lots max coin players playing negative games to stay in business.  For that matter, so do the pros.  Someone has to pay the bills, I just don't want it to be me.  CS is not a "game killing strategy", it's a wallet protection strategy.

[olds442jetaway]

I like increasing my bet a time or 2 after hitting 4 or more on deuces because if I miss on the higher bet, I am no worse off than if I had not hit the 4 of a kind or full house. I realize in the long run, percentage wise, your total return will be the same, but CS definitely keeps you in the game longer. There is also something to be said for being in the game longer. While quitting when hitting a nice premium hand early would be the ideal way to go for most recreational players, being behind all day also increases the probability, ( not odds of hitting something on the next hand ) that you will hit a nice hand ( like quad deuces ) before the session is over. Many people do not understand the difference between probability and odds. Since in the long run, quad deuces comes out only about every 5k hands or so, you have a better chance of hitting them once in a 5k hand session than you do playing just 1 or 2k hands in your session day. Most of us who play deuces wild, count on hitting the quad deuces during our session. We are usually not thinking that much about hitting the Royal because it is so elusive. Just about the only time we can be anywhere near even in a long deuces wild session without hitting quad deuces is hitting wild royals or 5 of a kinds multiple times and close together. That happens very infrequently and it is a bonus gift if it does.

[olds442jetaway]

    Casinos want to make as much money as they can in the shortest time possible. They also keep track of how much a day a given machine makes. If the game doesn't fit their number they are looking for, they will likely pull it and replace it with something else. Casino management can be just as superstitious as vp,slot, or table players. If a machine is unusually hot, they might shut it down and even remove it from the floor entirely. I have seen this done first hand several times in playing over the last 40 years. One time was even on a machine I had been doing very well on over a very short period of time. They gave no explanation other than it was removed for maintenance. What a joke that line was.

[billryan]

In the long run, your results won't be anywhere close to that of someone playing full coins. The longer you play, the more your results will deviate.Each and every royal flush at anything less than full coins will kill your expected value and nothing you do will change that.

[billryan]

Begin to think of the rest of your life as one long session, rather than hundreds of smaller ones and the only rationalization for cs falls apart.

[olds442jetaway]

My version of CS begins with the smallest bet that pays the correct amount for the Royal and the best paytable I can get. In that case, CS will work as well as anyone's play with just flat betting max coins. I am forunate in that the casino where I play offers a Royal payout of 800 for 1 even for a nickel on a few machines. The bulk of the machines pay the correct Royal amount with a bet of 5 quarters or more. They also allow bets of up to 25 quarters and the ability to change denomination from quarters to halves, or to dollars. The nickel game paytable is poor at only 96.2%, but it is a good time filler on low budget days and at least there is not the additional Royal penalty. The play on the quarter machines is at a 98.91 paytable, which is about the best you are going to get in any of the east coast casinos and better than many across the country for a regular deuces wild game. Anyone who says that CS with a beginning bet that insures a correct royal payout and has a 98.91 paytable is not as good long term as flat betting a machine with the same paytable, knows nothing about math, odds, and probability. Long term results percentage wise (percentage return of coin in ) and I mean really long term like hundreds or thousands of years will be exactly the same as flat betting the same machine with say 5 quarters bet that would pay 4,000 for the royal.

[FAA]

Non Max RF kills 1.98% of JOB EV, a very big deal indeed.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]Non Max RF kills 1.98% of JOB EV, a very big deal indeed.[/quote]You bet.  I would never use CS to play Jacks or Better.   5,000 hands for a quad deuce is bad enough.  Who wants to wait 40,000 hands to see a short coin royal?  Not this guy.  

[olds442jetaway]

Not anybody. Those 6-8 hour stretches on job without even a quad are brutal on job.