Free Play

[billryan]

   I play at levels I'm comfortable with. Given 7-5 games on the floor and 9/6 games in the high limit room, I'll leave.
Last week I played some shortpay Video poker at The Cannery but it was because I was there to see a band. Given the choice of a two drink minimum to sit at a table or free drinks playing short at the bar, I played short.
Watched a full set, had three beers and cashed out 75 cents ahead.
WINNING!!!!!!!!!
I could feel the blood of tigers racing thru me.

[Waiting4RF]

I agree with Bill from the other thread. There has to be a reason besides video poker to go to the casino. If you are a senior citizen, go on the day they give you extra stuff. If they have a drawing and are calling names every 30 minutes (that is not based on the amount you play), go then. If you get free food a certain day, go then. If they have point multiplier days, go then.   My wife and I went for a free slot tournament and we both won one day ($250 and $500 free play).

If you read all of Dancer's weekly articles, listen to his radio/podcasts, and read old posts here, you will learn how he gets an advantage. You may be able to apply some of that to your game. Also watch AmericanCasinoGuide channel on YouTube for video poker play and comps. Jean was just on again this week. For small players like me, the free stuff helps to offsets loses. My problem is continuous bad luck. Last week I was playing and got one small quad. Person sits down next to me and gets quad aces and kicker ($200). This week same thing but it was quad jacks and a kicker ($160). Luckily for me, that person was my wife.   

[Onenickelmiracl]

I remember some guy somewhere writing his observation you get more quads from pairs than dealt trips. I dont think it was Florida Phil. Maybe it was.😷

[billryan]

I remember some guy somewhere writing his observation you get more quads from pairs than dealt trips. I dont think it was Florida Phil. Maybe it was.😷

When you already have three of a kind, there is only one left. With two of a kind, there are twice as many left.
You are also drawing three cards instead of two.
I'm sure someone here could apply their voodoo and make that formula work. If you squint real hard and hold it just right.

[alpax]

I agree with Bill from the other thread. There has to be a reason besides video poker to go to the casino. If you are a senior citizen, go on the day they give you extra stuff. If they have a drawing and are calling names every 30 minutes (that is not based on the amount you play), go then. If you get free food a certain day, go then. If they have point multiplier days, go then.   My wife and I went for a free slot tournament and we both won one day ($250 and $500 free play).

If you read all of Dancer's weekly articles, listen to his radio/podcasts, and read old posts here, you will learn how he gets an advantage. You may be able to apply some of that to your game. Also watch AmericanCasinoGuide channel on YouTube for video poker play and comps. Jean was just on again this week. For small players like me, the free stuff helps to offsets loses. My problem is continuous bad luck. Last week I was playing and got one small quad. Person sits down next to me and gets quad aces and kicker ($200). This week same thing but it was quad jacks and a kicker ($160). Luckily for me, that person was my wife.   

At least you understand this well enough. However this has been conveyed countless amount of times already.

I also think what billryan stated earlier is more important. If someone cannot really learn about Video Poker from Mr. Dancer, the person must have severe learning issues.

My own opinion about this situation, I do think FP does understand, but rather ignores it because FP is simply just a hater and has no credibility to back up the claims made against Mr. Dancer. Nothing more nothing less.

Although Jean Scott emphasizes to play low and slow in her books and appearances on American Casino Guide, she and Brad probably plays more towards Mr. Dancer's style based on what she posts on the vpfree board. However I am surprised that Stations did not cut her off. My goal is to do better than those low and slow players.

I remember some guy somewhere writing his observation you get more quads from pairs than dealt trips. I dont think it was Florida Phil. Maybe it was.😷

It was probably me.

The odds of a pair being dealt is 1 out of 1.37 hands
The odds of trips being dealt is 1 out of 46.3 hands

In another words, a pair is dealt exactly 20 times than trips. Poker players know this by heart.

To convert a pair into quads is about 1 in 360
To convert trips into quads is exactly 1 in 23.5

Trips is about 15 times easier to convert into quads, but comes out 20 times less frequent than pairs.

That is why more quads come from pairs than trips.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Aplax]My own opinion about this situation, I do think FP does understand, but
rather ignores it because FP is simply just a hater and has no
credibility to back up the claims made against Mr. Dancer. Nothing more
nothing less.[/quote]This is where you are wrong.  I am not a hater of the man who calls himself Bob Dancer and I have nothing to prove here.All I ever did was give players on a budget or those who hate losing a way to play VP longer with the money they have.  For some reason totally unknown to me, Mr. Dancer interpreted my Recreational Strategy as dangerous.  In his normal fashion (which his followers use as well) he started calling me names which ignited a fire storm that continues to this day.  I have been on this forum since 2008.  I challenge anyone to post any statement I have ever made about video poker that was a lie.   You may find places where I disagreed with Mr. Dancer or made some wrong assumptions, but you will not find any outright lies.  If you can, post them so we can talk about it.  If I lied, I will admit it.The majority of Mr. Dancer's strategy and VP information is solid and indisputable.  My biggest personal problem has always been his glamorization of high stakes gambling.   Others may have different opinions.  Through my charity work, I have met people who lost their life savings gambling.  Four years ago, I was asked to help a woman who's husband had died.   Their home was paid for and he had $200,000 in life insurance.  She got into going to the Hard Rock.  Like me she had won big early on.  This was the worst thing that could ever happen to her.   When I met her she had lost the life insurance and had even mortgaged her home for gambling money.  Very sad.People read how Mr. Dancer wins big money gambling.  Many assume they can do it too.  In the beginning I know I did.  His books and statements make the life of gambling sound so great.   He throws in a few disclaimers once in a while or tells them they aren't intelligent enough, but the damage is done.   Mr. Dancer even tells people he would be happy if his daughter married a gambler.  I'm sure you guys in Vegas see the aftermath of this every day.  How many failed gamblers are on the street, in jail or worse?   A few make it, but what about the damage this talk causes along the way?What is to be gained from Mr. Dancer announcing to the world that he gambles $30,000 dollars a day in a gas station and wins?  If I was him I would do it and keep it to myself.  I have no problem whatsoever if someone wants to gamble 100 times that much.  My problem comes when they use it to sell books, promote a radio show or fill classes.  What other reason would there be for doing this?   Other than his famous condescending attitude, I have no other problems with Mr. Dancer, his followers or any part of his strategy.Mr. Dancer is obviously very good at what he does.  He has worked a lifetime to develop his strategy and it works if you have his games, skills, discipline and bankroll.  He should be given all the credit for his accomplishments.  No one gave him anything and he made it on his own.  I respect that.  One day he will look back on his life and most likely be happy with it.   I only hope the ghosts of all the people harmed by trying to duplicate his results don't haunt his memory.  I'm pretty sure he will read this post.  If he would like to respond, I would welcome it.  Come back Mr. Dancer.  There is nothing to fear here.P.S. This post has nothing thing to do with Recreational Video Poker which is all I ever wish to discuss on this forum.   When someone on this forum makes false statements about me, I am forced to respond.   Running away from your critics only makes things worse.

[onemoretry]

For some reason totally unknown to me, Mr. Dancer interpreted my Recreational Strategy as dangerous. 
At the time. I believe, you were touting your Cheap System. Also, at the time, you were doing quite well at video poker, hitting an abundance of royals, pictures of which you usually posted for all to admire.

You may not have explicitly stated that all that success was directly related to the use of the Cheap System, but the inference was very much there (look what I've done, hint,hint, you can do it too).

The Cheap System was, of course, a crock, with varying bet sizes based on nonsensical triggers.

The concern that Bob Dancer expressed was that neophytes would conclude, based on your results, that the Cheap System was a winning system. That, I believe, is why he felt it was dangerous. And, when he told you so in his somewhat direct and abrasive style, the war was on.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=onemoretry]The concern that Bob Dancer expressed was that neophytes would conclude,
based on your results, that the Cheap System was a winning system.
That, I believe, is why he felt it was dangerous. And, when he told you
so in his somewhat direct and abrasive style, the war was on.[/quote]His concerns are the same concerns I have about his own strategy.  The difference is I recommended playing single coin quarters and he recommends playing at whatever denomination it takes to gain an advantage. My feelings are, if the vast majority of players are going to lose long term, why not give them an "option" to play longer and save money?  I always said CS was an option for playing negative VP games.  I never said it worked better than anything Bob Dancer was doing.The facts are this.  I tested single coin quarter CS for two years.  I posted my results on the web and included photos and descriptions of each major jackpot.  CS allowed me to play many more hands over this period of time with the same bankroll giving me many more chances at a max coin jackpot.   I used my savings to take single coin CS pot shots on $5 machines.  I also hit a large number of max coin jackpots playing CS quarter, 50 cents and dollar play.  At the end of the two year period I found I had made a long term VP profit for the first time in my life.  Could someone else have the same luck?  If they do or don't, It won't change my results.  I suppose the only thing that will make some people happy is if I denounce my results and give the money back.Someone on this forum recently stated they ran simulations on CS and
that only one in six royals was at max coins.   CS allowed me to play
five times more hands with the same bankroll.  If I hit more of them at max coins than his math
showed, my results would be positive.  This is exactly he same thing that
happens if you use Dancer's strategy and hit more than your share of
royals.That was the one and only period of time I made any money long term playing video poker.  I don't use CS now because when I play that way I don't earn any comps.  In the past, my casinos weren't offering me anything of value even if I had played max coins.  That has changed and so has my strategy.

[billryan]

The difference, of course, is that Dancers strategy relies on proven math that can be reproduced by anyone with a program and a computer while the other strategy relies on voodoo that can't be reproduced and the word of someone with an established track record of having a very casual relationship with the truth.

[FloridaPhil]

Math or VooDoo.  None of these strategies is infallible as they all rely on things going your way.   Would you like to take a poll of everyone on this website and ask how many members have earned a long term VP profit?If you can play the same games as Mr. Dancer, have his skills, comps and bankroll, why wouldn't you?   Will you win long term?  Perhaps, perhaps not.  There will always be an element of chance in video poker, that's just part of the game.  If you can't play positive games and you know you don't have Mr. Dancer's skills or bankroll, why set yourself up for a bigger loss than necessary?  All I was attempting to do is provide players that play negative VP games with an option that let them play more hands for less money.  If that's a capital offense, send me to the gallows.