Turning $20 into $1,000 Again...

[ko king]

KK, thanks for the kind words and i meant it when i said i always enjoyed your posts. i think the first mistake that many have made is ever believing that casinos, were their friends. casinos are like every other business, they need to make a profit to exist. nothing wrong with that, it is capitalism. will they stretch the law, yes, but folks forget companies need to make a profit to pay workers their salary, their SS taxes, their health insurance, their matching 401k, etc. casinos are no different. i think a good way to look at it, is to examine how government regulators dealt with the banks, as a result of the financial crisis. i know most hate the banks and i am not defending them. but, the same folks who were regulating before the crisis, declared they were going to come to the rescue and regulate them after the crisis. the same exact regulators who helped get us in the mess, were there to save us. so, how did they save 'us', they lent money to the banks at near 0% interest,and who really paid, all the savers of the world. and, the savers are still paying. only the 'investors' have made out. why do i bring this up, the same regulators who are supposed to be looking out for the casino gamblers, also get their income from the taxes/fees that casinos pay. are they going to bite the hand tha feeds them. if a casino is having financial trouble, due to the economy and they ask the regulators if the can introduce some new way of shuffling cards, that somehow meets existing legal standards and it will help the casinos stay in business and pay those taxes, what do we expect the regulators to do. you have been consistent. something has changed, it is likely legal, but you do not know what it is. i agree. 


Never made the mistake of believing I was buddies with any casino, I understood that certain casinos did a better job of showing their appreciation towards me as a customer and that's how they earned my business. I mean it was always a cold war, me against the casino, no shots were fired but we fought the battle. I for the most part don't think I stand a chance anymore, too much power,influence and money, while those conditions always existed I don't believe they felt the need to exercise them to their fullest extent in order to not only defeat me but destroy me if I continued to fight back.
        Please don't get me started on the big banks and the government when it came to introducing new laws and regulations that were supposed to benefit us all, that was all sugar coated crap that was nothing more than a means to control the general population and keep better tabs on their everyday activities revolving around money. I don't know if you kept up with all the new introduced regulations that were said to be put in place to protect us from the big nasty banks, there's nothing really there as far as the big boys are concerned, business pretty much as usual for them. As for folks like myself a long term small business owner we sure noticed changes that were made right off the bat. One of the things that occurred that stuck out more than anything and pointed to what they were really trying to achieve concerned the new guidelines regulating the ability to cash a business check. There was always a law that said if you cashed a business check above a certain amount a "pink slip" was written up and sent in to the tax folks. Within the new banking regulations passed a while back when the big banks were crying for help from tax payers there was a new rule saying that small businesses and self-employed people could no longer cash a business check, the funds must first be deposited into the account and a recorded withdraw could then be made. Not a big deal but it sure pointed to what they were really trying do, gain more control over the little guy and keep track of him, like I said no big deal but please don't pretend you added that little reg to control the big boys who were the real problem in the first place. Anyway, I think our new motto concerning the casinos and video poker is we must adapt or die. When's the last time you lobbied the government for new regulations concerning anything, my guess is never, it's always the big boys and big money writing the laws to govern us all.

[notes1]

did not mean to imply that you believed casinos were their friends, but others have. i read where some go on about their host, when the only job of the host, is to seperate you from your money.   money buys influence, companies have money, special interest groups have money....end result...the get listened to and get their way. casinos have money, they get their way. you and i are small fry, players do not group together, no one cares about us. governement want more and more money to buy votes, they get it from us, because we are not a group, no power. as long as folks keep asking for more stuff from the government,they will happy to accomodate. bribe you with your own money. as far as casino games go, this is the new realility. accept it, adapt to it, i know of nothing else to do. i would suggest you browse ALN MENDELSON'S site. they have some very big players who comment. just yesterday, one player posted a CET invitation he had just received, stating he had attained 7* status, with over 1,000,000 tier credits. i only mention this because i rarely read anyone on that site feel the machines are fixed. they admit they have changed, greatly reduced paytables. and,i  have yet to read anyone post about being net postive over a longer term. these big players just accept they are going to lose and try to get the max benefits they can get for all their losses.  

[alpax]

did not mean to imply that you believed casinos were their friends, but others have. i read where some go on about their host, when the only job of the host, is to seperate you from your money. 


just yesterday, one player posted a CET invitation he had just received, stating he had attained 7* status, with over 1,000,000 tier credits. i only mention this because i rarely read anyone on that site feel the machines are fixed. they admit they have changed, greatly reduced paytables. and,i  have yet to read anyone post about being net postive over a longer term. these big players just accept they are going to lose and try to get the max benefits they can get for all their losses. 

Well said, I need to get that into my head that the casino is not a friend to anyone no matter how classy a host can present him or herself, and can turn against anyone at any moment.

The big players expect to lose each year some of their own money as they earn the tier credits to renew their 7* status, but they see that they will receive more benefits in value from CET than what they lose. Probably best to think of it as discounted vacations. They are also good about planning out their play to earn the 10k bonus Tier Credit for playing 5k themslves. Not sure if that continues to be the case with reduced offers on the 7* signature stuff.

The way they've adapted to the slashed paytables in Rincon and Vegas is to travel farther up the state of Nevada to reach Lake Tahoe and Reno.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]Smell a run materializing and bump up the betting.[/quote] The problem has always been "How do you know when you are in a run?"   This is the reason I always start with $20. By starting with the same amount each time you have a better handle on what's happening in the game   If you throw in a bunch of money, you will never notice a run until it's too late.  Also, having a predetermined and fixed time to increase or decrease your bet is good because no one can predict what will happen in the future.  On the other hand, being at the right place when lightning strikes is a good thing when it comes to video poker.

[notes1]

[QUOTE=alpax] 
The big players expect to lose each year some of their own money as they earn the tier credits to renew their 7* status, but they see that they will receive more benefits in value from CET than what they lose. Probably best to think of it as discounted vacations. They are also good about planning out their play to earn the 10k bonus Tier Credit for playing 5k themslves. Not sure if that continues to be the case with reduced offers on the 7* signature stuff.
have to disagree with just one thing you posted. losing just 'some' of their money implies a moderate amount. i would guess the losses the big players have are much greater than you think. no facts to back this up, but would not surprise me if te losses reach well beyond the tens of thousands of dollars.  i would question the idea that between their own money losses and the comps they get, that most are anywhere close to breaking even.  i believe charles barkley and john daly admited to each losing over $50m over the years. and, they are among the few who will admit it.

[ko king]

did not mean to imply that you believed casinos were their friends, but others have. i read where some go on about their host, when the only job of the host, is to seperate you from your money.   money buys influence, companies have money, special interest groups have money....end result...the get listened to and get their way. casinos have money, they get their way. you and i are small fry, players do not group together, no one cares about us. governement want more and more money to buy votes, they get it from us, because we are not a group, no power. as long as folks keep asking for more stuff from the government,they will happy to accomodate. bribe you with your own money. as far as casino games go, this is the new realility. accept it, adapt to it, i know of nothing else to do. i would suggest you browse ALN MENDELSON'S site. they have some very big players who comment. just yesterday, one player posted a CET invitation he had just received, stating he had attained 7* status, with over 1,000,000 tier credits. i only mention this because i rarely read anyone on that site feel the machines are fixed. they admit they have changed, greatly reduced paytables. and,i  have yet to read anyone post about being net postive over a longer term. these big players just accept they are going to lose and try to get the max benefits they can get for all their losses.  

I'll check the site out. I'm guessing very few if any on that site play in my area of the country. I "USED" to be a 7* player, nowhere close anymore and don't really care either. As far as pay tables go nothing much has changed in this area, most casinos didn't have great pay tables in the first place. There's a couple of casinos around these parts that dropped the tables a notch but most have stayed the same. When I was a 7* players I only played machines with a payback percentage of 98.98%, nothing better was offered. I'm not ashamed to admit I lost, year after year. I enjoyed playing and I loved the atmosphere, I had no problem accepting the fact that the casino had a 1.02% advantage over me, my losses for hands played each year pretty much reflected the 1.02%, some years slightly above and some slightly below, it all averaged out. I'm still playing 98.98% vp and if I'm just into some kind of extended funk and nothings changed then I'm nothing more than a sore loser and an idiot. I tend to believe otherwise, that little voice in my head has me convinced that this isn't the same game, something is different, more aggressive and relentless. Like always I'll avoid using words like "fixed" or "rigged" because I don't believe that to be the case, I prefer "different".

[ko king]

[QUOTE=alpax] 
The big players expect to lose each year some of their own money as they earn the tier credits to renew their 7* status, but they see that they will receive more benefits in value from CET than what they lose. Probably best to think of it as discounted vacations. They are also good about planning out their play to earn the 10k bonus Tier Credit for playing 5k themslves. Not sure if that continues to be the case with reduced offers on the 7* signature stuff.
have to disagree with just one thing you posted. losing just 'some' of their money implies a moderate amount. i would guess the losses the big players have are much greater than you think. no facts to back this up, but would not surprise me if te losses reach well beyond the tens of thousands of dollars.  i would question the idea that between their own money losses and the comps they get, that most are anywhere close to breaking even.  i believe charles barkley and john daly admited to each losing over $50m over the years. and, they are among the few who will admit it.



Notes, once again you shine with a post laced with common sense and wisdom. No one wants to brag about becoming a 7* player and add that it only cost them a little more than many people make per year. The casinos don't and can't exist on winners, very few frequent players can honestly claim they are winners. How many post or threads on this site have you seen made where anyone admits to losing $2K or even $5K in a single night or weekend playing vp, I can't recall seeing a single one but I can promise you it happens. Nope it's no fun to talk about actual losses, plenty of pics of jackpots but no pictures of empty wallets, ATM or credit card receipts.

[notes1]

  When I was a 7* players I only played machines with a payback percentage of 98.98%, nothing better was offered. I'm not ashamed to admit I lost, year after year. I enjoyed playing and I loved the atmosphere".
  your quote is why i enjoy reading your posts, honest. you are correct, mendelson's site is largely made up of players from vegas and so. california. i only point it out because they have some big players who have just accepted that things have changed and like may of us, they enjoy the game, they are not expecting to win.  i will never be a 7* and i give them no more respect than anyone else, the higher your status, just means you lose more. what i do think is important is that most of their posters, just like yourself, admit that even in the 'old' days of better playing machines, most still lost. i do not think you are a sore loser or an idiot. my first post on this site asked if others were experiencing what was happpening to me. was the cost of gambling increasing for everyone? we may not know all the reasons why, but most will agree that indeed the cost of playing VP has increased. 

[alpax]

have to disagree with just one thing you posted. losing just 'some' of their money implies a moderate amount. i would guess the losses the big players have are much greater than you think. no facts to back this up, but would not surprise me if te losses reach well beyond the tens of thousands of dollars.


You are absolutely correct about that, I should not have sugarcoated the amount of play it takes to reach 7* and its 150k tier credit minimum. I've read the multiline Jacks or Better games found at New Orleans, Lake Tahoe, and Reno are the most efficient way to get into 7* budget and time wise, but doing it at a single line game at $1 denomination for the less-knowledgeable players is a huge grind. $50k coin-in is needed to get 5000 tier points, and that is 10,000 hands. It would take me 15 hours of playing within a 24 hour day.

One million tier credits no matter how it got earned is still huge loss. Knowing the pain and experiencing for myself the losses of thousands of dollars on an annual basis, I no longer envy people who brag about high statuses.

I should get it out of my mind, but I recall seeing that there was a past discussion on the VPFree forums that some people in Vegas knew what game and how much to play to generate the maximum $5000 bounce back mailer offer (I can recall Mr. Dancer was one of those players who were able to take advantage of it while it lasted). They believe these overcomped players also attributed to the bankruptcy of CET.

[FAA]

"How do you know when you are in a run?" This is the reason I always start with $20. I have very strong hints sometimes, even with $20 ascending. It's a pocket that will only briefly stay hot. Hold your nose; max bet a few hands. Anything over $20 is courting disaster. That's how I took my JOB beating. Hey, 99.5% game. Can't go wrong for long. Way too hopeful to miss my demise.