Recreational Money Management

[FloridaPhil]

Bob Dancer has nothing worthwhile to add to any Recreational VP discussion.  Another member made a comment he didn't like, so he made the decision to post on the Recreational Forum.   If he and Bill Ryan would stop posting here, we could get on with our discussions and leave them out of it.    As it is, every time we are attacked we are forced to respond.   If they want a Forum in constant turmoil, so be it.  All we want is to be able to discuss VP as entertainment without the personal insults and attacks.Math is useful to a Recreational VP player, it's just not to overriding force it is in professional play.  Most recreational players have different priorities.   They may want to play longer with their money or add more excitement to the game.  Perhaps they want to walk around and go for a pot shot instead of beating a dead machine.  They also have limited budgets and attention spans.  Some players believe we are "paying their bills".  Who cares?  It's our money and we should be able to talk about or play any way we want without some jerk cutting in.

[New2vp]

Bob Dancer has nothing worthwhile to add to any Recreational VP discussion.  Wow, how do you respond to that?  Well, how about using Phil's words in a recent response to me?   I think every member of this forum should feel
free to post their own thoughts freely.  I do not take personally
anything posted on this forum.   I have my beliefs and others are
entitled to theirs.   That is the nature of Internet Forums. Seems like someone's inconsistency is showing!  I think you owe us all an apology.  But that's just my belief.  You're entitled to yours!
As it is, every time we are attacked we are forced to
respond.   If they want a Forum in constant turmoil, so be it.  All we
want is to be able to discuss VP as entertainment without the personal
insults and attacks. Sorry, go back and check this thread.  Bob was not addressing you.  He was simply defending himself, which you say is ok.  Ok, I guess, as long as it is you responding.  Even when you made an uncalled for barb trying to bait him, he didn't respond.  And then, you attacked ... unprovoked.  Face it, this one's on you.Edit: Just thought of this.  I guess this does belong in Recreational Play if you get pleasure for continually Bob bashing!

[FloridaPhil]

If Bob Dancer and Bill Ryan agree to stop posting on the Recreational Forum, I will never mention either of them again.   Unless they send in substitutes to continue their attacks, I will hold to this bargain.  Webman can ban me if I break this agreement.However, I can not control what disillusioned players may say about them.    All I can do is direct them back to the Strategy Forum where their complaints can be addressed by the source of their disillusionment. 

[New2vp]

If Bob Dancer and Bill Ryan agree to stop posting on the Recreational Forum, I will never mention either of them again.   Unless they send in substitutes to continue their attacks, I will hold to this bargain.  Webman can ban me if I break this agreement.However, I can not control what disillusioned players may say about them.    All I can do is direct them back to the Strategy Forum where their complaints can be addressed by the source of their disillusionment. 




Interesting, from experience your bargains are moving targets.  I'd hate to play Battleship with you since the boats are supposed to remain stationary throughout the game.We both know I was talking about YOUR post attacking Bob, not the one from the other "disillusioned poster."I don't want you banned.  I even think you should be able to post anywhere.  I just want you to learn once in a while.  If you tried I think you could even understand when it is and isn't appropriate to use "expected results aren't always consistent with observed results" instead of "the math doesn't work when ..."  Acknowledge when someone else is right once in a while ... when they are not bashing Bob or berating someone who likes to try and play with an edge.  Stop criticizing others who don't agree with you ... especially when you have insufficient basis to do so ...  and then when they go over the top in defending themselves acting as if they are the ones who started the problem.i like reading posts ... but I have to admit I really don't like constant reruns.If you have spent your life as the boss, it's easy to forget that when
you're not the boss, it is a whole lot easier to change your own
behavior than to dictate that others change theirs.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=new2vp]If you have spent your life as the boss, it's easy to forget that when
you're not the boss, it is a whole lot easier to change your own
behavior than to dictate that others change theirs.[/quote]You are right, I have been a boss most of my life.  You don't become a successful boss by bullying people into your way of thinking.  You listen to what they say and make decisions based on your experience.  My experience with advantage VP play has been dismal.  I tried very hard to make it work.   In my opinion, this theory does not hold water.  I am not the only VP player who has drawn this conclusion. I can live on the same planet with players who think VP math owes them a profit.   I have a hard time keeping silent when others are told they are not intelligent enough to win or they are paying someone's bills with their best efforts.   These words are insensitive and hurtful.  It accomplishes nothing except to inflate the egos of the people making these statements.   Being crass and insulting does not win many friends, clients or converts.I don't have a problem with Mr. Dancer's enterprise.  I believe I understand his business plan fully.  Bill Ryan needs to find someone else to insult.  I am sure he can find a host of new targets.   I will be happy with this arrangement as long as we are allowed to discuss video poker as entertainment in peace.  The ball is in their court.

[case]

Just so you know, Bob Dancer did not invent playing VP with an edge. You always call it Bobs strategy that taught the world to play VP correctly. Bob just wrote books helping to explain it to many people as well as did other authors.

Why did you not reply to new2vp and challenge his math when he told you that you could win 14 of 15 year’s by playing full play deuces? He told you it was close to 100% as you can get.....and he was right.

Why do you keep saying everyone who follows Dancer loses their money? How can you make this statement? Dancer repeatedly says you must play with an edge to beat the game. Why is this wrong?

You said you tried To beat VP and it just does not work. You are right. It does not work unless you have an advantage. It is not rocket science but goog old math.

[FloridaPhil]

We need to recognize that today's VP is played in two radically different worlds.  Years ago you could make a blanket statement about VP and it would apply to most everyone. Vegas is one of the last holdouts for positive VP games, cash back, generous comps and incentives that most players on the outside never see.  Advantage Play only works where you have an advantage.   If I am a Vegas player, it's easy for me to walk away from a negative game.  All I have to do is drive down the street where I can find full pay games, get paid when I leave and have my dog groomed for free.   In the Southeast the best VP games you can find are about 99% and you have to play dollars or above to play them.   Most are 96-97%.  Comps are slim or practically worthless.  They will gladly give you a free room for the night so you can pay triple for your room in the casino.  Our ticket redemption machines don't give back change for a dollar, much less cash back for playing positive games.  The nearest casino is an hour and a half away.  Drawings are held at all times of the day and night. In all the years I have been playing VP in casinos, I have never once had my name called.  Why? Because I can't be there when I'm called.In this VP negative world, we have three choices.  We can refuse to play and find other hobbies.   We can try to hold down the cost by playing cheap or we can accept the cost as entertainment.  The problem with this Forum is partly in the titles.  When I talk about Recreational Play, I am talking about the Video Poker world I see, not the VP in Vegas.   Maybe we should change the title from Recreational Play to Disadvantaged Play, because that's what it is.What we need to solve this problem once and for all is for both groups to recognize the other exists.  Otherwise this forum will be useless to anyone who plays VP outside of Vegas. The Vegas VP scene is well covered on this forum.   Vegas players should try to understand our VP world and give us room to discuss VP as we see it.   Going back and forth slinging insults is not going to help anyone play VP better, wherever they play it.

[FAA]

AC VP is just below LV. Still Gambling Without An Edge. Strive to save, don't make the day a marathon and players stand a good chance of winning. You can't keep chucking max coin into a negative game. It's just common sense. Hazard missing a max RF and proceed.

[FloridaPhil]

We will be staying at the Borgata in April.  Checking Vpfree2.com it looks like AC video poker games aren't too bad.   Still negative, but definitely better than the Southeast.  We're looking forward to it.We sometimes drive thousands of miles on our VP road trips.  On these trips we see all kinds of VP odds.   It is common to lose for days playing near positive games then hit a royal on a 96% game in another town.   If some players make money using advantage play strategies, good for them.  I suspect their advantage has more to do with generous Vegas comps than VP odds.All I can do on this forum is talk about what happens when we play.  The games we play are negative.  The comps are what they are.  We only have two major casinos in Florida.  Our next closest option is a nine hour drive away.  I don't envy Vegas players because of their games or comps.   We play what we have and enjoy the game as entertainment.

[DougJ]

Doug is a new player to the gambling world. Because he struggles he assumes everyone else is also. Keep working on your game doggie and one day you “may” understand how it is done.....maybe

Tsk tsk.

The truth about gambling losses must have hit a little too close to home for you.