Turning $20 into $1,000 Again...

[FloridaPhil]

Took my weekly trip to the Tampa Hard Rock today.  I expected it to be crowded, but it was really nice.  Guess all the tourists went home for the holidays. As my bankroll continues to grow, I've been taking some small potshots on $5 machines.  Put in $20 and hit this about 4 hands in.  This is the third $1,000 single coin quad deuce I've hit in the last few months.  For you math guys $1,000 is the same as a quarter max coin Royal.  Too bad playing single coin is such a loser. 

[olds442jetaway]

I think you have been hanging out with Ted, LL and family, and ?...

[FloridaPhil]

Can't understand why people say this doesn't work.  A deuces royal Flush happens every 45,000 hands on average.  A $5 quad deuce is 9 times more common and a single coin $5 quad deuce pays the same.  Seems like a no brainer to me, but what do I know?   Hope everyone has a Happy Holiday.  I know I will. 

[VP_vp]

Why not play $1 full coins instead of $5 one coin when you want to "take pot shots"?

When I read your strategy, it is based on the fact you want to reduce the average loss on the bets. Shouldn't you first go up in coins (to regain the RF max payout), before you go up in denomination?

Quoted from your website: Fact #2 - When playing less than 100% payback video poker games, you lose less money per hour by playing single coin instead of max coins.

The fact is true if the denomination stays the same, however, when you take a potshot with $5 single coin, you lose more money per hour, than say $1 max (5) coin. I believe you're taking the single coin strategy too far and you're missing out on a better theo payout at $1 max coins.

[alpax]

Why not play $1 full coins instead of $5 one coin when you want to "take pot shots"?

When I read your strategy, it is based on the fact you want to reduce the average loss on the bets. Shouldn't you first go up in coins (to regain the RF max payout), before you go up in denomination?

Quoted from your website: Fact #2 - When playing less than 100% payback video poker games, you lose less money per hour by playing single coin instead of max coins.

The fact is true if the denomination stays the same, however, when you take a potshot with $5 single coin, you lose more money per hour, than say $1 max (5) coin. I believe you're taking the single coin strategy too far and you're missing out on a better theo payout at $1 max coins.

You are entirely correct about this, I do not believe in any superstitions that higher denomination machines pay better than lower ones, the cards are dealt the same way just that the paytables are different. Although it is tedious to push on MORE GAMES, change the denomination, and re-enter the game again, I do that all the time when I feel like playing a progressive system at a live casino setting. I know Bob Dancer recently let his snide opinions out with wildman's trip report thread, but it is a huge mistake.

I have yet to see Phil post any hits (even a straight flush or 5oaK) with max bet $5 denomination. I image it be hard when you only put in $20 into a machine and the bet requires $25. So if the bets would not be altered much, I'd stick with $1 max bet and leave it there, Tampa Hard Rock does have this Airport Deuces from 50 cents all the way to very high denominations.

[alpax]

Can't understand why people say this doesn't work.  A deuces royal Flush happens every 45,000 hands on average.  A $5 quad deuce is 9 times more common and a single coin $5 quad deuce pays the same.  Seems like a no brainer to me, but what do I know?   Hope everyone has a Happy Holiday.  I know I will. 



The math is unrelated in this case.

The cheap strategy is there to help people mitigate losses per visit to the casino over the long run.

For this case, it is nothing more than playing max bet quarters vs max bet dollars (even shorted with single coin 5 dollars). A dollar player can win more or lose more than a quarter player on a given session.

Btw, good hit regarless

[Vman96]

Why not play $1 full coins instead of $5 one coin when you want to "take pot shots"?

When I read your strategy, it is based on the fact you want to reduce the average loss on the bets. Shouldn't you first go up in coins (to regain the RF max payout), before you go up in denomination?


Totally agree. You're just pissing away money otherwise. He has the same denominations available for 50c+. Min betting $5 level vs. max betting $1 level is just giving the house more money in the long term. But Phil seems to be luckier than Lucky Larry when it comes to these type of hits.

If he had my luck on quarter+ deuces, he would be in a world of hurt... But I did win $20 in Tunica on the game this week thanks to a "Royal Flush"! Still deuceless at quarters+ lifetime though!

[FloridaPhil]

What most players are missing here is that I'm playing in an environment of significantly negative games with practically no comps. Playing max coins at the same denomination on one of these machines is a long term loser no matter what you do. Been there, done that...Also, I limit my daily bankroll to $300.  When you walk into the casino with $300 and leave with $1,000 your bankroll grows significantly and I do this often enough to know it's no fluke.  To me a win is a win.  It doesn't matter if it's a $62.50 royal or a $5K quad deuce, it's all good.Ninety percent of my play is done using the Cheap Strategy quarters or fifty cents. This limits my hourly losses and allows me to move up to max coin dollars when I'm significantly ahead.  I only play $5 machines $20 at a time and I only do it once every hour or so.  Obviously I can't play max coins on a $5 machine with $20, so I play single coin which gives me a minimum of 4 hands. I move up to max coins on a $5 machine when the counter is at $125.  One day I'm going to hit a $5K quad deuce or a $20K royal and I'm going to post it on this forum.  I do the same thing with max coin dollar machines, but I don't do as well.  I don't understand it, but video poker machines do seem to pay better playing single coin.  It makes entirely no sense, but they do on the machines I play.My strategy is to limit my hourly loses by playing cheap and keep my occasional high denomination jackpots and it's been working for nearly two years now.  I'm not trying to sell anything or become the guru of single coin play.  I found a way to win when the experts say you can't and I'm just reporting how it happens. 

[Tony Felder]

Great job Phil! You do what works for you and you and seem to have great success doing it. It has helped me when I wanted to "slow " things down. Pay tables here in Detroit are pretty bad so it's a great way to kill a few hours, watch a game, smoke a cigar, have a couple beers and not go broke. I for one thank you for introducing me to the "cheap" system!

[wildman49]

  I don't understand it, but video poker machines do seem to pay better playing single coin.  It makes entirely no sense, but they do on the machines I play.























I agree Phil, the same where I play on single coin, the system works and like you am staying ahead for the first time in the 6 years of playing VP. Why give up 2% to the casino at max bet year after year playing 98% pay back? So you get that 4000 coin royal? Most people would be on cloud 9 if only to lose 2% per year most are much farther in the hole. Keep taking them down Phil!