Single coin vs. max coin play

[olds442jetaway]

     In vp, it is all about hitting those premium hands as often as possible. Hitting them early in a session can make one a short term winner at that moment. I have posted before about how I and a few others just have a feel that the premium hands are hitting more on bet 1 than max bet. I know all about giving up nearly 2% for the Royal penalty etc. I can only go by experience and the feel I get over many millions of hands played.
     I am starting this thread to comment on results of playing entire sessions at single coin. I will start as dollar play, but may have to switch to quarter play if it gets too expensive. I also realize that my results will only represent those of one patron at one casino and several hundred thousand hands may be needed before meaningful results can even be guessed at.
     My theory and it is just that is that somehow the casino is allowing more premium hands to hit at single coin play than max coin play or at least play with 5 coins in. This could all be hogwash of course, so I will just post the approximate results and let them speak for themselves.
     My first session a couple of nights ago turned out pretty good. I played just single coin dollar 9/6 job on over 40 machines. Anytime I hit a profit of a dollar or more on a given machine, I cashed out and tried another machine. Most of the machines I played, gave me that profit right away. None smoked me. At least 6 quads were hit in the course of 6 hours of play. It was not uncommon to hit a good paying hand on the first deal. About 4,000 hands were played. A couple of machines took an hour or so to make a dollar, but that was the exception. The bottom line is I was ahead 81 bucks which is pretty good since I turned a 99.54% machine into a roughly 98% or less machine. This is only one session. If something similar happens session after session, I don't know about anybody else, but I will be convinced.

[FloridaPhil]

I suspect I have more single coin play experience than most on this forum, so I'll make a few comments.   Playing single coin dollars sometimes has an advantage over max coin quarter play.  For one, the odds are often better or equal as dollars odds are commonly better than quarters in many casinos.  Secondly, the cost to play averages less on each hand.  This allows you to play more hands with  the same bankroll giving you more chances at a jackpot.  All this works fine until a single coin Royal Flush pops up, then it costs you.WARNING!!  CS discussed in the next two paragraphs.  Do not read if you're offended by strategies not related to mathematics. CS works especially well with single coin dollars because there is no great denomination jump required to get to dollar play.  In the case of DW, if a max coin quad deuce is hit you just earned the same as a max coin quarter royal flush and you have 9 times more chance of doing this over one DW royal cycle (45,000 hands).  Even a single coin $1 quad deuce pays $200, which is only $50 less than the same hand at max coin quarters. A single coin $1 royal pays $250, with is like getting another max coin quarter quad deuce.  The real carrot is the possibility of a max coin $1 royal flush for $4,000.  Over the last three years I have hit numerous $1,000 max coin quarter royals playing CS but only one max coin dollar royal for $4K so far.   I think this has more to do with starting off with single coin quarters and occasionally moving up to dollars than anything else.Overall I enjoy playing CS dollars.  For me, what it comes down to is the odds.  If the overall quarter odds are 98% or above, I play max coin quarters.  If the odds are less, I play CS. This strategy has helped to limit my losses significantly.  All big wins with this strategy are luck, but so is hitting a natural royal flush no matter how you play.  I think you will enjoy playing single coin dollars.  It's more exciting because of the anticipation that occurs each time you switch to max coins.  CS is purely a recreational strategy and all about having more fun for less money, not about the numbers.To address your original question "Does single coin pay better than max coin play over the same number of hands?"   Based on my experience I think it's possible, but I haven't a clue if it's real or just an anomaly in my case. Do I think everyone should play short coin?  Hell no!  Personally, I've recently decided the best thing for me is to never play any VP game with less than 98% overall odds.  I'll play the rest at max coins and leave it at that.  I will move up in denomination when I feel it's right and take my chances with the RNG. To limit my losses I'll keep my cash out number low and walk out when I've had enough.

[olds442jetaway]

It is kind of funny in a way imo on what people get offended about when in my youth, pretty much everything rolls off and you move on. Good follow up post Phil. I know much of what you have said has been said before, but for many, this could be the first time reading it. I think you also probably noticed in my post that I said hitting a premium hand early on in a session can make you a winner for the day at that moment. It these machines are not set to win more good hands at short coin, nothing except tremendous luck can make you a winner long term. As we both know long term is infinity when talking vp. Borrowing your phrase again, anything can and will happen in vp. I am curious if my gut feeling on single coin dollars will turn out to be more than that. I think I am going to give it another shot tonight especially since I noticed they are comping a room for me. Could it have something to do with my last session being at dollar play....Who knows. The bottom line is this. If you can afford to play vp for fun knowing that ultimately you will likely lose money great. If you can't afford to play and or it is not fun, don't play for money at all...edited to fix a typo.

[case]

No one will ever convince me that machines are "set" to pay off more good hands at short coin. It has been said on this forum many times....if you say deposit 20 dollars in a machine and  play short coin you get many more hands for your original stake so of course you will hit more quads. But to think they set machines to pay off more often on short coin bets.....no way.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=case]No one will ever convince me that machines are "set" to pay off more good hands at short coin.[/quote]I'm sure you are right.  I've been very lucky with single coin, but I believe it has more to do with the number of hands played than some machine rigging nuance.  One thing you can do as a player that will make it seem like it works better is set your cash out limit low.  This gives you a lot of white tickets and keeps you from digging a hole on bad days.  Personally, my cash out limit is almost always $50.   As a quarter player I seem to be able to manage my money better at this limit and reevaluate what's going on before going home with empty pockets.

[Tedlark]

Phil I'm not an advocate either for or against the CS but to me, that magical carrot that you mention, is at the end of a really really long stick.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote]Phil I'm not an advocate either for or against the CS but to me, that
magical carrot that you mention, is at the end of a really really long
stick.[/quote]I realize that, but it kept me in the game the last few years.  Lots of people play Lotto every week with the odds a lot worse than me hitting a max coin royal flush.  I still think single coin quarter CS is a good option for players on a strict budget.  Personally, I'm reevaluating how I play and am working on a new strategy using max coins.   I've tried it with VPW over the last few days and at the Hard Rock last week and I'm encouraged.  No more short coin royals for this guy. 

[FAA]

I played just single coin dollar 9/6 job on over 40 machines. Anytime I
hit a profit of a dollar or more on a given machine, I cashed out and
tried another machine. Most of the machines gave me that
profit right away. None smoked me. At least 6 quads were hit in 6 hours of play. It was not uncommon to hit a good paying hand
on the first deal. About 4,000 hands. A couple of machines
took an hour or so to make a dollar, the exception. The
bottom line is I was ahead 81 bucks pretty good since I turned a
99.54% machine into a roughly 98% or less machine.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Buck and Bolt Strategy. Nothing glamorous about your incessant moving and grinding. But $13 an hour is $13 an hour. That sure would have saved me a lot of pain on Sunday! You really got the lay of the land there. I don't have six hours of patience. But $26 over two hours instead of losing the same amount or more at one machine is a much more attractive alternative. I can figure on visiting 15 machines, based on your experience. Great news, Olds! Oh, I only play quarters. I should walk away up $5.

[onemoretry]

   so I will just post the approximate results and let them speak for themselves.

"Approximate" doesn't really tell very much. Six quads in six hours? Does that equate to one quad per 300 hands, 400 hands, 1000 hands, or what?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=onemoretry]"Approximate" doesn't really tell very much.[/quote]I think what Olds is trying to prove to himself is that playing single coin is more profitable than playing max coins.  I suspect he will think it is until he hits a single coin royal flush or two.  From my experience playing single coin with good money management on a negative VP game makes it easier to break even more often, but winning long term is another matter altogether.  Playing with strategies that limit loses can be a good thing, especially if you are playing seriously negative games on a very small budget.   If you're playing to win long term, you need every advantage you can get and playing single coin is not one of them.  Most players wouldn't be happy playing video poker if they knew the best they could do is to break even.  My profit over the last three years was due to playing very small denominations most of the time and hitting much bigger denomination lucky jackpots a few times.   This is not a strategy, it's a pot shot that worked out in my favor.   CS was never intended to be a "winning strategy".  It is only a way to extend your play as long as possible on a small fixed budget and it does that.  What happens after that is totally based on lucky alone.