Actual Machine Payout

[Kolorado Kegler]

I had received a couple of hand pays at a casino in Blackhawk, Co., one night and while the tech was reading the figures on the machines, I happened to notice what the payback was on a couple of different machines. All of them were around 95 to 97%. As to people not knowing what they are doing, a lady sitting next to me playing DDB was dealt four 3's and a seven. She held all five cards.

[BOOPSAHOY]

Didnt you want to smack her in the head!!!???

[jm002546]

I had received a couple of hand pays at a casino in Blackhawk, Co., one night and while the tech was reading the figures on the machines, I happened to notice what the payback was on a couple of different machines. All of them were around 95 to 97%. As to people not knowing what they are doing, a lady sitting next to me playing DDB was dealt four 3's and a seven. She held all five cards. Speaking of idiots,  I frequently observe multi-deck blackjack play during VP breaks just to judge the quality of play.  It's mostly horrible on the minimumplay tables.  Just observed a lady STAND on 11!

[MikeA]

Speaking of idiots,  I frequently observe multi-deck blackjack play during VP breaks just to judge the quality of play.  It's mostly horrible on the minimumplay tables.  Just observed a lady STAND on 11! It is absolutely impossible to amaze me by what is seen at blackjack tables!  I think anyone who has taken the time to learn the most basic of strategy and played for a couple of years, could write a book that would have people rolling in the floor in unabashed laughter.  But it wouldn't sell.  They wouldn't realize it was funny!  And believe me, there are more people playing without a clue then there are who know what they are doing and are doing it right!  I've heard that breakdown stated as being 10% who really know how to play the game and 90% who are just there to pay the electricity bills.A good silent test:  Note what players at your table do when confronted with a Soft-18 against a dealer 9,T,A.  Observe whether players split 9's against a dealer 9 or not.  You can't go by someone splitting 10's.  Either in that case, they are very stupid or they are accomplished advantage players who have a good camouflage.

[EDC1977]

  Or they're drunk and don't care what happens to their dollars. I've seen many people wandering around the tables, sit and dump a nice stack of green or black chips down and walk away empty handed looking oblivious to what happened to their chips! ! !

[jm002546]

[QUOTE=jm002546]
Speaking of idiots,  I frequently observe multi-deck blackjack play during VP breaks just to judge the quality of play.  It's mostly horrible on the minimumplay tables.  Just observed a lady STAND on 11! It is absolutely impossible to amaze me by what is seen at blackjack tables!  I think anyone who has taken the time to learn the most basic of strategy and played for a couple of years, could write a book that would have people rolling in the floor in unabashed laughter.  But it wouldn't sell.  They wouldn't realize it was funny!  And believe me, there are more people playing without a clue then there are who know what they are doing and are doing it right!  I've heard that breakdown stated as being 10% who really know how to play the game and 90% who are just there to pay the electricity bills.A good silent test:  Note what players at your table do when confronted with a Soft-18 against a dealer 9,T,A.  Observe whether players split 9's against a dealer 9 or not.  You can't go by someone splitting 10's.  Either in that case, they are very stupid or they are accomplished advantage players who have a good camouflage.[/QUOTE]  Mike-I have observed that even fairly competent seeming players are standing with 16 against dealer >6.  The strategy rules I have seen clearly contradict that play.  Granted, it seems to go against common sense, but one who ignores the experts doesn't have much sense, common or uncommon.   Also I can't find a dealer stand soft 17 table -  is that just at the higher minimums? I love the casino expression "dealer must hit soft 17".  I would like to try saying "I'm going to give you a break and insist that you don't-I don't need that advantage."

[duckhunter]

On the topic of the correct play in Video Poker both my wife and I have tried to learn the correct play and go by it, but in the term of long term play where it will all come out I dont think we will live that long.  I have read some articles from Dancer and Scott on the fact that Royal's are hit more by people not knowing the correct play (they go for the royal more I guess I know I do) I believe that not using the correct play is bad but I believe that the not playing the full coins is worse.  The best we have happen in Vicksburg a woman sat down beside my wife and she Hit a royal and then asked my wife if something was wrong with her machine.  Also have you played for a long time (playing the best correct play you can) and you hadnt  hit anything and when you move to another machine someone else sits down and hits everything, its like you set the machine up. 

[MikeA]

  Mike-I have observed that even fairly competent seeming players are standing with 16 against dealer >6.  The strategy rules I have seen clearly contradict that play. Believe it or not, that is a very marginal "correct play".  You actually have only a 1% better chance of doing better by hitting that hand than if you stand on it.  That's why when "neighbors" at the table ask me about it, I just tell them to flip a coin but then go on to tell them that if they hit the hard 16 100 times and then stand on it 100 times, they will lose one less hand if they hit than if they don't.Face it.  It's a horrible hand.  The worse you can get in Blackjack!  And, if you are counting cards and are at the break even point, then the correct play is to stand!  Example, unbalanced KO starts 6-deck shoes at -20.  If you are at -4 or greater, then the correct play is to stand against a dealer TEN or Ace.  You hit against a 7/8/9.   For the record, using that same system, you take Insurance and Even Money at +3 and that's something that almost all non-counters know you are NOT supposed to do!  BTW, those kinds of plays are "tells" to the pit that they have a card-counter at the table!

[jm002546]

 I've seen a simple rule - hit on sixteen as third card only. Kind of a card counting concept - no penalty cards used in that hand.

[shadowman]

On the topic of the correct play in Video Poker both my wife and I have tried to learn the correct play and go by it, but in the term of long term play where it will all come out I dont think we will live that long.  I have read some articles from Dancer and Scott on the fact that Royal's are hit more by people not knowing the correct play (they go for the royal more I guess I know I do) I believe that not using the correct play is bad but I believe that the not playing the full coins is worse.  The best we have happen in Vicksburg a woman sat down beside my wife and she Hit a royal and then asked my wife if something was wrong with her machine.  Also have you played for a long time (playing the best correct play you can) and you hadnt  hit anything and when you move to another machine someone else sits down and hits everything, its like you set the machine up. 
 
Looks like you and your wife are going about it intelligently. Even though the "long term" seems like an esoteric concept, it really is something you are constantly approaching over time. Whether you get to some arbitrary point is somewhat meaningless since all points on the curve are higher playing correctly (after just a few hands).
 
BTW, my own view is that paytables are most important. Expert play is secondary (which includes playing max coins). Seems pretty obvious but I don't think everyone is completely in tune with this concept. If I found a machine that paid back 101% I'd play it over JOB at 99.54% even if I didn't know the game previously. That's partly based on my experience where I assume I wouldn't give back more than 1%. 
 
Of course, there are situations where playing max coins is not the best approach. If the paytable is bad enough then you will lose MORE at max coin rather than playing a single coin. Naturally, the best play would be to walk away.