what do we want from casinos

[notes1]

one thing i think we need to consider is that VP players are no longer really relished by casinos.Absolutely. Financially, we're the equivalent of flies, excluding those who stay glued for hours piling up points or credits. We're all losers in the long run. VPers just take four times the time to make their donation. I did get rated for craps my last visit, though my bets were always the token min. I may as well have continued with VP.


 appreciate you confirming my post and liked what you added, about VP players, just taking a little longer to donate their funny. you got that right!

[Vman96]

   
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one thing i think we need to consider is that VP players are no longer really relished by casinos.Absolutely. Financially, we're the equivalent of flies, excluding those who stay glued for hours piling up points or credits. We're all losers in the long run. VPers just take four times the time to make their donation. I did get rated for craps my last visit, though my bets were always the token min. I may as well have continued with VP.



Considering how I play, any casino that doesn't consider me a flea is making a mistake and immediately gets my attention.

VP players really need to play at the dollar level (3/5 play quarters, 10 play dimes etc) to even approach the value of a penny slotter to the casino.

[OTABILL]

Interesting article touching on this subject.

Players deserve better gambling value, consultant says

[notes1]

Interesting article touching on this subject.

Players deserve better gambling value, consultant says
thanks for the article. i believe the 'consultant' is stating what has been said here many times. revenues per casino are down, casinos have cut back on expenses/costs and those same casinos need to take more from each player that comes in. indeed, the cost of gambling has increased over the last few years.  while we may think this situation is unique to casinos, it has been happening in many businesses. since the recession, revenues/sales dropped, these businesses cut costs (in many cases, that meant getting rid of people), looked for technology to reduce expenses and have attempted to increase margins on every sale. sounds a lot like the casino business.

[FAA]

markets mature and expenses go up and the pool of gamblers remains stagnant.I don't think the AC pool is entirely stagnant. AC bachelor parties year round business. Of course, that only pads a hundred days a year at most. AC market was so mature it took down four casinos, and really should have been five. Interesting that he says the dollar machines have better payback on slots. What about VP? I'm thinking of going dollar VP at min level and bite my tongue if I hit a Royal. 9/6 JOB is available in dollars and quarters. The dollar machines are in much quieter quarters.

[djc32]

. Interesting that he says the dollar machines have better payback on slots. What about VP? I'm thinking of going dollar VP at min level and bite my tongue if I hit a Royal. 9/6 JOB is available in dollars and quarters. The dollar machines are in much quieter quarters]


The pay table dictates the pay back % on VP , but with slots a casino can set it at what ever they wish within state law.
Alpax posted this in another thread, it's shows the difference in payback % on slots. Normally the higher the denomination, the higher the pay back %


From the American Casino Guide



1¢ Slot Machines

The Strip - 88.19%
Downtown - 88.83%
Boulder Strip - 89.14%
N. Las Vegas - 90.72%

5¢ Slot Machines

The Strip - 91.46%
Downtown - 91.30%
Boulder Strip - 96.42%
N. Las Vegas - 95.45%

25¢ Slot Machines

The Strip - 91.52%
Downtown - 94.76%
Boulder Strip - 96.71%
N. Las Vegas - 96.61%

$1 Slot Machines

The Strip - 93.37%
Downtown - 95.20%
Boulder Strip - 96.08%
N. Las Vegas - 96.03%

[alpax]

It is indeed that higher denomination slots often pays back more, but that should not force you to go over your means for the bankroll you could afford to lose or not. I admit that I fell for it, settling for higher denominations. There is also something else to look at, which is the house edge and the expected losses. I've took a look into this after going through losses, but I'll use the reported Downtown payouts as an analysis.

Penny slots on average forces you to bet 40 cents minimum. With 88.83% payout, there is a 11.17% edge. Roughly 4.47 cents per spin is the true cost.

Nickel slots, if you could find any in Vegas, forces you to bet a dollar on 20 line games (some go 30, 40, 50 lines). The 5, 9, 15 liners are long gone. At 91.3% there is a 8.7% edge, so you lose 8.7 cents per spin on a 20 liner.

For quarters, the boring traditional reel slots make you bet 3 or 5 lines, but the 5th line ones are usually the ones that award the top prize. So $1.25 a pin. With 94.76% payout, there is a 5.24% edge, you lose about 6.3 cents a spin.

The Dollar slot pays back 95.2%, and typically requires 3 lines on the boring traditional reel. There are video reel slots that do 5 or 10 lines, or even 20 lines. But spinning $3 at a time at a 4.8% edge can cause you to lose 14.4 cents a spin.

Obviously this is just an average, there are different types of slot machines with different payout and bonus game aspects. Finding a machine that requires the lowest bet amount (more like number of lines) while at the same time makes you eligible for the top prize is the key (some games beef up the top prize at max bet).

There could be a slot machine available that is the same game but in different denominations. How can they control the payouts? It is very similar to video poker tables, where the common low paying combinations are reduced in frequency, just like the Full House and Flush payouts in most video poker games. Lower denominations do not give you much of a chance to stay in the game, but the odds of hitting the big payout is the same across all denominations.

[notes1]

i want a good value for my entertainment dollar. no different than anything else i spend my money on.   2014 was a very poor year for me in regards to getting a good value from some of the casinos i went to. i committed to making changes that would not make me a winner, but instead make the expected losses more acceptible. i am now 1/3 done with 2015 and the changes i made have had a big difference. some may be attributed to a change of luck, but i have not been on a big win run, i have simply positioned myself to reduce my big losses.  i am only stating my results, not suggesting anyone else follow it. i greatly reduced my multiple night stays at any casino. i found that when i was on a bad run, being there an extra night or two, just made it worse. i stopped going to destinations/casinos that needed to provide excessive incentives to get me to come. free plane rides to tunica and biloxi make for a nice trip, but those costs have to be paid for by the casinos some how. i stoped going to AC, but i making a exception this weekend, largely due to posts that things have improved. we will see.  the trips to tunica, biloxi and AC were generally nice trips at great properties, free food, etc, but the value of what i received, did not equal the cost of gambling.    as a low level diamond player, it is easy to get a room and food at most casinos. the free plane ride, especially when they include a non playing spouse, indicates these properties really need the business and those that do it are generally located in areas where casino revenues are down substantially.    

[ko king]

i want a good value for my entertainment dollar. no different than anything else i spend my money on.   2014 was a very poor year for me in regards to getting a good value from some of the casinos i went to. i committed to making changes that would not make me a winner, but instead make the expected losses more acceptible. i am now 1/3 done with 2015 and the changes i made have had a big difference. some may be attributed to a change of luck, but i have not been on a big win run, i have simply positioned myself to reduce my big losses.  i am only stating my results, not suggesting anyone else follow it. i greatly reduced my multiple night stays at any casino. i found that when i was on a bad run, being there an extra night or two, just made it worse. i stopped going to destinations/casinos that needed to provide excessive incentives to get me to come. free plane rides to tunica and biloxi make for a nice trip, but those costs have to be paid for by the casinos some how. i stoped going to AC, but i making a exception this weekend, largely due to posts that things have improved. we will see.  the trips to tunica, biloxi and AC were generally nice trips at great properties, free food, etc, but the value of what i received, did not equal the cost of gambling.   Â as a low level diamond player, it is easy to get a room and food at most casinos. the free plane ride, especially when they include a non playing spouse, indicates these properties really need the business and those that do it are generally located in areas where casino revenues are down substantially.    

I get all kinds of surveys from casinos and ever once in a while a phone call or a visit while I'm playing asking what I think about their casino or their competition. Bring up the subject of a better value for my gaming dollar/pay tables or better results and they avoid the subject, most just say that's a corporate decision and they have no control over that aspect, then they have the nerve to ask other than that "how are we doing". Geez, I don't know about you but pay tables and results to me are the most important issue. I really don't see what's so hard to understand, when the casinos were packed the pay tables for vp were better and the pay back percentages for slots were better, now they're worse and the crowds aren't showing up, it's not rocket science. Don't come up to me and say I know our games suck now but if I give you a free buffet or room will you come back and play. The casinos that send the most surveys are the very ones that are struggling to attract a decent crowd and they ask questions like "how was your drink service", "Did you feel safe inside the casino", "Did you feel safe outside the casino", the answer I want to give is no I didn't feel safe outside the casino, I felt like I was about to be robbed, then when I got into the casino and started to play I felt like I was getting robbed. Truth is I rarely even visit the casinos in this area that are having a tuff time, I pop in ever once in a while and play a few bucks just to let them know I'm still kicking. It never fails though that when I do go a host will quickly show up and mention that they haven't seen me in a while and ask if there's anything I need to let them know, when I say better pay tables and results it's always the same thing, "sorry I can't help you with that, that's a corporate decision".

[alpax]

I have been asked those questions by phone at CET and a third local casino I stopped going. All they care about is milking more money out of you more than anything.

I just kept my response very general, I told them I lost a lot and I have not much more budget to play. Also said I do not have the same luck anymore, and am losing more money on average per visit. Though they can offer free hotel stays and meals, but additional free play is something out of their realm. They stopped calling me altogether.