Why do people think they can make money playing VP

[billryan]

It's funny how you guys basically keep calling Dancer a liar based on your personal experiences playing inferior games and or using bad strategy.
If you wanted to say it's hard to make a living in locations with bad VP, you might be right, but making blanket statements about it being impossible is just plain ignorant.
One of my friends out here claims to get about $800 in free play from all the casinos. I'm sure he's an exception but seeming has the coin in requirements down pat, and plays more days than not. He's a $10 occasional $25 player who is transitioning from blackjack to vp.I can only imagine the amount of free play someone who plays $125 a hand generates.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]I can only imagine the amount of free play someone who plays $125 a hand generates.
[/quote]I'm sure Bob Dancer accumulates a bunch of free play.  I'm also sure his comps are spectacular.   When the smoke clears and you subtract his loses, I'm not at all convinced he nets a profit.  Personally, I don't care.  I own most of his books and follow most of his advice.  The world of video poker has been good to him and we are the beneficiaries of his knowledge whether he makes a profit on the game or not. I believe there are factors involved in video poker that no one can control.  If six identical Bob Dancers are playing a big progressive and one hits it, is there skill involved?  Are the other five less skillful?  Will the five losers take turns hitting the progressive over their lifetime just because of their skill?  I'll give him all the credit in the world for his intellect, but I'm not so quick to ascribe his claimed results to skill alone.

[spxChrome]

His $800 Free play more than likely came from his BJ play. Free play comps for VP are drying up as well, so I wouldn't count on that for long term success. My free play went from $300 a week to $35 at one place and $190 a week down to $75 at another. I believe at one point in time you could make some money playing poker, with strict discipline and perfect strat. Nowadays not so much.

[billryan]

[quote=billryan]I can only imagine the amount of free play someone who plays $125 a hand generates.
   I'm sure Bob Dancer accumulates a bunch of free play.  I'm also sure his comps are spectacular.   When the smoke clears and you subtract his loses, I'm not at all convinced he nets a profit.  Personally, I don't care.  I own most of his books and follow most of his advice.  The world of video poker has been good to him and we are the beneficiaries of his knowledge whether he makes a profit on the game or not. I believe there are factors involved in video poker that no one can control.  If six identical Bob Dancers are playing a big progressive and one hits it, is there skill involved?  Are the other five less skillful?  Will the five losers take turns hitting the progressive over their lifetime just because of their skill?  I'll give him all the credit in the world for his intellect, but I'm not so quick to ascribe his claimed results to skill alone.

[/QUOTE] You keep saying you don't care, and then proceed to again call him a liar. Then throw in some sinister conspiracy theory, as if the casinos are giving him his big hits because he has a way of broadcasting them.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]You keep saying you don't care, and then proceed to again call him a
liar. Then throw in some sinister conspiracy theory, as if the casinos
are giving him his big hits because he has a way of broadcasting them.[/quote]What I said was I don't believe he makes a profit from playing video poker alone.  By his own admission he counts comps, raffles, cruises, cars and all kinds of non video poker related winnings toward his profit.   How is a recreational player ever going to compare his play results by using that accounting method?  His tales of video poker riches definitely drive players to video poker machines which benefits casinos.  Personally, I never considered video poker before reading "Million Dollar Video Poker".   I play video poker because I enjoy it, not because I think it's going to make me richer.  Anyone who thinks it will is in for a big surprise. 

[billryan]

[quote=billryan]You keep saying you don't care, and then proceed to again call him a
liar. Then throw in some sinister conspiracy theory, as if the casinos
are giving him his big hits because he has a way of broadcasting them.What I said was I don't believe he makes a profit from playing video poker alone.  By his own admission he counts comps, raffles, cruises, cars and all kinds of non video poker related winnings toward his profit.   How is a recreational player ever going to compare his play results by using that accounting method?  His tales of video poker riches definitely drive players to video poker machines which benefits casinos.  Personally, I never considered video poker before reading "Million Dollar Video Poker".   I play video poker because I enjoy it, not because I think it's going to make me richer.  Anyone who thinks it will is in for a big surprise. 

[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure he has repeatedly said he doesn't count comps and cruises. Why wouldn't you count a car you own playing a game as winnings.
You simply don't have the desire to play VP full-time. I don't understand your need to try and stop others.
It comes off as jealously, to me.

[FloridaPhil]

You are misinterpreting my feelings on this subject. I believe long term video poker winners exist, but I don't believe the difference between winners and losers is due to skill alone.  In my view once you get to a certain level of expertise and experience, the difference comes down to luck.   If someone wants to bet hundreds of thousands of dollars of hard earned money on the gamble that the cards will go his way, fine with me.  I do have a problem when he sells others on this concept and when it doesn't work as advertised he blames their lack of discipline, intelligence or skill.  I am also not trying to discourage anyone from trying to duplicate Bob Dancer's reported results.  I have stated that I use his strategies myself and while I haven't made money at the game I have come close to breaking even over the past five years. If one or two of my lucky jackpots happened at a slightly higher denomination, I may claim to be a long term winner.  So far that hasn't happened.  The title of this thread is "Why do people think they can make money playing video poker?"   The reason is some people do.  I think the reason Bob Dancer makes money at video poker is that he is well financed, he knows his way around the game and the casino and he has been lucky.  Take any one of those things away and he's just like everyone else. I'm getting tired of coming off as the spokesman for the anti Bob Dancer camp. I
have nothing against Bob Dancer.  Bob is a very savvy businessman who
parlayed an unbelievable lucky streak into an entire career.  He's
devoted his working life to video poker which in itself is an incredible
feat.   The question "Does anyone make money playing video poker?"
should be "Do they make enough money to make it worthwhile"?  I believe
this is where marketing overtakes the facts.  Video poker is not a stable cash flow source, one year you're up and three years you may be down.  Bob was smart enough to create a cash flow machine from his video poker products sales and service businesses.  It's a brilliant strategy which feeds on itself.  If he loses money, no one knows about it and he considers it marketing cost.   If he hits a big jackpot, everyone talks about it which drives more business to his other companies.  I have all the respect in the world for someone who could create a profitable business out of something as insignificant as a video poker machine. 

[FAA]

As I opined three days ago, the thread query is a waste of brain cells. Fortunately, FP has now offered the usual reasoned analysis for anyone who cares to further contemplate it. Curtain.

[notes1]

As I opined three days ago, the thread query is a waste of brain cells. Fortunately, FP has now offered the usual reasoned analysis for anyone who cares to further contemplate it. Curtain.


I guess someone has decided to be both judge and jury.

waste of brain cells?, no more than the constant back and forth on which AC casino one now thinks is best. which one is it this week?

I think this is a valid discussion and unlike what one may perceive, I would welcome comments from the throngs of actual winners out there and how they are doing it. I would like to believe that the added expense of going to vegas, pays off for a small time player like myself. I would like to hear stories about how people are long term winners at all casinos, which is often asserted. I would like to hear how a theoretical 1% advantage always turns that players results into positive territory.

I would also like to hear from those who have the courage, to tell their story about trying to play VP for a living and failed. those who moved to be near better odds and hear how it worked out.

I am still trying to understand what is so criminal about asking for verification when one asserts success at anything.   

[wildman49]

I think this is a valid discussion and unlike what one may perceive, I would welcome comments from the throngs of actual winners out there and how they are doing it. I would like to believe that the added expense of going to vegas, pays off for a small time player like myself. I would like to hear stories about how people are long term winners at all casinos, which is often asserted. I would like to hear how a theoretical 1% advantage always turns that players results into positive territory.
IF one had a monster bankroll, could do 5mill coin in and get that magical 101% payback then we are talking about winning at VP. Only place I know of with games higher then 100% payback is the Vegas market. I to would love to hear someone from Nevada making a living at this game alone.