83% payback ?

[pokeherguy]

Late in 2006 a law was passed in Arkansas allowing electronic games of skill. We now have a few racinos operating with video poker and video slot machines. I know several people may wonder how a slot machine can be considered a game of skill. On these slots you get 2 spins, after the first spin you decide which line or lines to hold and press the spin button for your second spin. Now back to video poker, I completed one full year of play at our local racino and even though they say the payback percentages are higher than that of the casinos in the Tunica area I have a hard time believing it. I have played video poker in the Tunica area for 10 years running and have never had such a bad year of play as that I have recieved in this year from the racino. I do know the video poker is run by RNG's and they have said in the past the payback percentage was somewhere around 99.3%. If that indeed were the case why would my play be so bad compared to that of Tunica's? I play the same games at both places but see very different results. I've wondered if it were just bad luck or possibly something else. I still to this day have no idea why the results vary so much. For 10 years of play at Tunica it was pretty much the same year after year.
Now I find this and wonder if this may have something to do with it.
 
Each EGS shall pay out a minimum of 83% during the expected lifetime of the game as required by law.
 
What am I missing here? Why would they payback 99.3% if they could get away with as low as 83%.

[MikeA]

83% minimum...That in most states, applies more to slot machine paybacks than video poker though poker machines do come in under the umbrella.  You just couldn't have pay tables that would make the calculated payback less than 83%.  Then, there are other regulations in place to legislate the functionality of video poker (ie, has to have hands dealt in emulation of a hand dealt one from a deck of 52 cards which brings in the RNG).But on slots, there is not a paytable involved as there is in Video Poker.  The legislation was really aimed specifically at slots to keep the casinos from using chips that reduced the payback to 25% or something insane like that.But, to your question "Why would they payback 99.3% if they could get away with as low as 83%".Supply and demand.  In an area where there is competition between casinos, with all other things being equal, the casino that people "win" at more is the one that will draw the crowds.  Possibly, the machines chips and VP paytables are lowered compared to those in Tunica.  Maybe those responsible in Arkansas are for the time being, netting their projections with what they are doing and see no need to lure in more gamblers by increasing the percentages programmed into the chips.  Maybe they do not see themselves as being in competition with the casinos in Tunica.  In Missouri, there are public records listing quarterly, the paybacks on slots in the State Casinos (the only kind Missouri has that I'm aware of).  The term "loosest slots" actually means something in Missouri with those records that are published though the numbers are very tight implying that the differences are a matter of variance and not higher set payback percentages.Nothing but speculation of course pokeherguy.

[pokeherguy]

{Supply and demand.  In an area where there is competition between casinos, with all other things being equal, the casino that people "win" at more is the one that will draw the crowds.  Possibly, the machines chips and VP paytables are lowered compared to those in Tunica.  Maybe those responsible in Arkansas are for the time being, netting their projections with what they are doing and see no need to lure in more gamblers by increasing the percentages programmed into the chips.  Maybe they do not see themselves as being in competition with the casinos in Tunica. }
 
Well I can see you're thinking like I am. I do think before they first opened they had hopes of being competitive with the Tunica casinos because they were really advertising like crazy now you hardly see or here much about the place. I don't think it took them long to realize they were not doing a very good job of attracting a crowd. My thoughts are that with thier failure to lure some of the players away from Tunica the lower allowed payback may have been thier most logical answer. I used to work for a very large company and we did a ton of business because our profits were so low and we had the cheapest prices. We ended up getting a new CEO and he had some different ideas as to how business should work. The first thing he did was raise prices up 30% which did chase away a lot of our business and we thought he was an idiot but he did prove to be right in the end. Instead of doing $100 million at 10% profit we did $35 million at 40% profit. Less work and less overhead and he still increased the profit margin. I would'nt be surprised if the racino decided this approach may be thier best option. They are always messing around inside the VP machines, I can go in the place and 12 machines are shut down with a tech messing around inside them. Who knows what is really going on, its just a shame because I really like the place because its so close and it's really set up nice. I just wish I could justify continuing to play there.

[MikeA]

That "faulty logic" doesn't surprise me when it comes from the "powers that be" in Arkansas.  I can say that without prejudice since I grew up there! 

[cddenver]

 
Each EGS shall pay out a minimum of 83% during the expected lifetime of the game as required by law.
 
What am I missing here? Why would they payback 99.3% if they could get away with as low as 83%.
 
Here in CO the minimum is even lower, 80%.  That's roughly the equivalent of playing straight JoB with the top hit being Full Houses (no quads, SFs, or RFs).  You'd think that over time even the most dedicated gambler would give up on that kind of action - whether slots or VP, and find something with a better return.

[pokeherguy]

Okay I might have overlooked this part. Single line and multi play video poker machines are required to have a 2% higher minimum payback than slots. I've played for around 10 years at the Grand casino in Tunica and as far as thier payback % goes I'm actually slightly ahead. I've never really been very far ahead or behind its actually stayed fairly steady. Over the 10 years I've been up as much as $12K and behind as much as $8K. But playing at this racino is far different. They say they are better than Tunica and you can get better play but I can't make it happen. Its the most volitile video poker I have ever played. One things for sure I tried to make it work for me but I came up well short. 

[ginxxxx]

How do you guys know this stuff?  How can I find out about California regs?BTW we have a major initiative on our ballot this Feb 5 regarding tribal gaming.  Pretty interesting following the who's who both pro and con this issue.ginxxxOh no!  Didn't MaMa always say not to bring up religion or politics?

[cddenver]

How do you guys know this stuff?
 How can I find out about California regs?BTW we have a major initiative on our ballot this Feb 5 regarding tribal gaming.
 
State gaming regulations are online - check your state government's main website for info...since we don't have tribal gaming here in CO I'm not up on it, otherwise I'd post some info for you.  For the state casinos here I go through the regs once or twice a year to see if any sections have been changed.