Super Pay vs Triple Pay

[WorldsBestBoss]

I like the Super Pay multiplier...very clever and fun.  But does anyone feel that perhaps the extra credit is a waste?  It seems when I do get a Spin Multiplier it is a low number AND I tend to have a lousy hand.
My strategy is to try to get ahead some on a normal Triple Play (or just a single Jacks or Better) and switch to Super Pay (or maybe even slots) for a while for a change of scenery.

[Eduardo]

It IS a complete waste, except when you win with it.
 
I have had some good luck doing the opposite. I start with Super Times Pay to try to get some quick bankroll, then if I have won something I switch over to normal play with my winnings.
 
If I lose my STP bankroll I switch over to normal play any way. Basically I just do this for fun and to give myself a chance at getting way ahead early. I like the big chances you get with Super Times but like you say, those wins are rare so I can't play my entire trip on it.
 
Somewhere here there was a topic that talked about the odds of the different multipliers. Low ones are definitely the most common. Since most hands are losing hands, it makes sense that most multiplier hands are losing as well. But it sure hurts more because that it when you are most hopeful.
 
I've had it work out well enough for me that I still enjoy this approach. When you finally get a good multiplied winner it makes it all worth while.

[EDC1977]

Consider all the odds of hitting a larger jackpot hand on normal draw play, then add the incredible odds of getting a larger mutliplier combined with that large jackpot. I'll stick to regular draw play and play for the quads and RF's thank you. Novelty hybrid VP games are exactly that. (unless you have a disposable income) QQ's has become an exception to the rule.

[Eduardo]

That depends on your goals Ed. My goal is often to at least double my bankroll for a trip, or go home broke.
 
On a lot of the single line games, that requires mutliple large wins. On a super times pay machine, when the multiplier is high it means any number of hands could help me reach my goal.

The catch of course is getting lucky with your multipliers. Any time you get in a long period of few multipliers or only low ones, you are going to be in a world of trouble.
 
Still, most of my play is on normal games like you. I play the other games for the fun more than anything. It's nice to take a bigger gamble once in a while to mix things up because the up-side of those games is huge when you see it. It's nice to have that chance at a huge win at least, without stepping up your denomination of play.
 
I don't have the bankroll to play $5 much, if ever. But a jackpot on a lower denomination STP is bigger than a higher denomination on a 5 credit bet... also less common, but there is that chance!
 
So, I have times when I like both kinds of games.

[New2vp]

WBB,The 6th coin on Super Times Pay (STP) sometimes is one of those rare casino bets when there is a player's edge rather than a house edge without considering comps.  Of course, you generally have to make make a 5-coin bet that has a house edge to get it.  If the base game you are playing has an Expected Value (EV) greater than about 98.36% (60/61 in fractional terms), the 6th coin in STP has a player's edge, so in itself, the 6th coin cannot be considered a waste from an EV perspective.  With 9-6 Jacks or Better, the player's edge on the 6th coin is a bit more than 1.20%, which cuts into but doesn't offset the house edge on the first 5 coins.That one coin can yield up to 36,000 coins if you get the 10x multiplier with a royal flush.  Eduardo, that would be a good one to get for your first royal.With 9-6 Jacks or Better, the odds are daunting to get that 10x royal, a bit more than 15 million to 1.  Getting a royal with any multiplier is about 600 thousand to 1, a little less than the odds of getting a dealt royal.One can certainly understand that the 6th coin may seem like a waste even though it is a positive play.  Combining the ideas that 14 out of 15 times you get no multiplier and 54% of the time when you get a multiplier, you get a garbage hand worth nothing, multiplier or not; you end up with nothing for your 1-coin investment about 97% of the time.  That leaves you only about 18 hands per hour when you hit anything at all for your extra coin on average (playing at a rate of 600 hands per hour).  So, when the below average times hit, it would be easy to get discouraged.However, this is one time that the rare big hits do offset the common small 1-coin losses.  Of course this is not a guarantee, just what will happen on average.EDC, Certainly the conservative occasional player will probably get more play on average before losing his bankroll by avoiding STP.  And if you're playing a base game with a lower EV than 98.36%, you can even expect to lose more per play with STP (still a lower loss per coin, though).With a better EV and the added excitement of bigger hits on the plus side and a bigger investment with the possibility of losing your bankroll more quickly, it's easy to see why opinions may vary about this game.

[EDC1977]

Nuttin beats the elation of hitting a sizeble jackpot combined with a good STP multiplier. I've toyed with the game several times but cannot commit much of my regular bankroll to STP exclusively. (read=cheapskate) Thus is why I'd stick to regular draw play as opposed to STP. I don't set win/loss goals as some or many do. I will try to break even for the visit though. I base my EV on how long I can play with what I brought. A good example is my last trip to the G2E where I ran into Eduardo. I brought a little more than $200 just for VP. Most will tell you that this won't last very long and I'll be quick to agree. I played predominantly quarter denom and lasted all 3 days there plus brought home $40, RFB included. Thats almost unheard of but it happened to me. Thats some good bang for the buck as they would say. 



  Kjohn, sorry to hear of your illness and subsequent cancellation. You'll be that much more prepared when you do go!

[WorldsBestBoss]

Excellent comments guys...I appreciate that.  Being a CPA/investment broker and constantly dealing with mutual fund statistics - slot machines were my (illogical) escape from reality, but I got tired of leaving the boats mad after losing my $200 trip budget in an hour!  VP had been a happy median - at least I can play for a while and/or leave with most of my cash.  I usually like to play $.75 to $2 per bet.  For a while I was max playing some penny slot machines at $4.50 a pop and losing way too fast!
When I place a large bet (to me) on VP of $3.75 Triple Play or $4.50 STP my money seems to last a LOT longer than slots and I build up a lot on free play on my club card.  In fact last time over in Iowa I turned $100 into $295 and left the building ("Elvis has left the building").  I was thrilled!

[Vol]

I played STP yesterday in Vegas.  I began while counting (dealt) hands.  The first two Xs appeared with hands 70 and 93.  Then it got a bit better.  Isn't the average supposed to  be about once every 15 hands? so doesn't 70 seem a bit excessive? Hand 70 was a dealt FH, so at least thanks for that.
 
How is the appearance of the X determined?  Is there a separate RNG?