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when you draw cards,are the cards coming off the deck,are they off the top of the deck or are they positioned behind the cards that were dealt?
the draw
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
It depends on the age of the machine.
Back in the 80s they used to be behind the cards (parallel method). Then it was changed to the serial method in the 90s where 10 cards were taken from the top when the deal button was pressed. With the latest IGT machines (game kings) only 5 are taken on the deal and deck is continually shuffled until draw is pressed, then whatever is needed is taken from the top.
All methods are equally random.
BTW, my description above is not exactly right but it is easier to understand then discussing how a RNG works. For what it's worth IGT does not release EXACT descriptions of their algorithms.
Back in the 80s they used to be behind the cards (parallel method). Then it was changed to the serial method in the 90s where 10 cards were taken from the top when the deal button was pressed. With the latest IGT machines (game kings) only 5 are taken on the deal and deck is continually shuffled until draw is pressed, then whatever is needed is taken from the top.
All methods are equally random.
BTW, my description above is not exactly right but it is easier to understand then discussing how a RNG works. For what it's worth IGT does not release EXACT descriptions of their algorithms.
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Mr. Aces
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:10 pm
Shadowman is spot on! Nice to know there a "aware" players out here.
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knagl
- Forum Regular
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:42 pm
Indeed. 
Many of the machines at the local gaming establishment fall under the serial method, which always leads me to moments of "I could have had it if I had held "x" instead of "y"."
Many of the machines at the local gaming establishment fall under the serial method, which always leads me to moments of "I could have had it if I had held "x" instead of "y"."
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Minn. Fatz
- VP Veteran
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- Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:22 am
Ah, but the rub is you can never know when the right time is to hold "x" rather than "y" before the draw is made . . .
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MikeA
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:50 pm
Rather funny. Before I ever saw a VP machine, I programmed a game of Jacks or Better using a program editing tool on the mainframes called somethig that I can't even remember the name of! It used a random number to select every card....both on the deal and on the draw.
I guess because of this, I never thought of cards coming off of a physical deck of cards. It's always been numbers being pulled out of a table at random in my visualization of the process.
I guess because of this, I never thought of cards coming off of a physical deck of cards. It's always been numbers being pulled out of a table at random in my visualization of the process.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
Rather funny. Before I ever saw a VP machine, I programmed a game of Jacks or Better using a program editing tool on the mainframes called somethig that I can't even remember the name of! It used a random number to select every card....both on the deal and on the draw.
I guess because of this, I never thought of cards coming off of a physical deck of cards. It's always been numbers being pulled out of a table at random in my visualization of the process.
The method you just mentioned is the one used by IGT years ago. It is very efficient but does not provide an even distribution of cards. Since the RNG usually works off a power of 2 and a 52 card deck is not an exact multiple you end up with more cards selected at the lower end of the table when the RNG number is divided by 52. Pretty insignificant but none the less a small difference.
I have no idea what IGT does now. Using the RNG to shuffle a virtual deck is a reasonable and fairly easy technique. It is used by Dan Paymar in his Optimum Play software tool. It has a more even distribution as well.
Most writers speak to a virtual deck to make it easier to understand. It's something we can all relate to.
I guess because of this, I never thought of cards coming off of a physical deck of cards. It's always been numbers being pulled out of a table at random in my visualization of the process.
The method you just mentioned is the one used by IGT years ago. It is very efficient but does not provide an even distribution of cards. Since the RNG usually works off a power of 2 and a 52 card deck is not an exact multiple you end up with more cards selected at the lower end of the table when the RNG number is divided by 52. Pretty insignificant but none the less a small difference.
I have no idea what IGT does now. Using the RNG to shuffle a virtual deck is a reasonable and fairly easy technique. It is used by Dan Paymar in his Optimum Play software tool. It has a more even distribution as well.
Most writers speak to a virtual deck to make it easier to understand. It's something we can all relate to.
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MikeA
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:50 pm
Understood. For most it is easier to relate to a physical deck of cards.
As to the RNG.....you didn't have such a thing back then! The best we could come up with was a number generated off of the system clock which contained numbers carried out to an unbelievable unit (nano seconds or something like that!)
As to the RNG.....you didn't have such a thing back then! The best we could come up with was a number generated off of the system clock which contained numbers carried out to an unbelievable unit (nano seconds or something like that!)
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
Many of the machines at the local gaming establishment fall under the serial method, which always leads me to moments of "I could have had it if I had held "x" instead of "y"."
I'm one of the worst offenders. Nothing worse then seeing that RF draw come up when you a hold a pair of aces instead of suited AK.
I'm one of the worst offenders. Nothing worse then seeing that RF draw come up when you a hold a pair of aces instead of suited AK.
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rascal
- VP Veteran
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- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:25 am
Several years ago, a VP writer whose name I shall not mention wrote that after receving a certain sequence on the draw he was curious about what would have happened if his hold decision had been different. So he called an attendant over, and they "backed up" the machine and let him see what could have been. Is this, in fact, possible?
