New to VP, need suggestions!

[ddd234]

Hello to all VP gurus,

I have no idea that VP is beatable game until I run across Bob radio show. That surely peak my interest. I'm a table game player, new to VP and never play any machines. Couple of questions,

1. What is the accurate play % before I should start live play?

2. There are so many different VP machines, they all seem to have Double Double Bonus, are they same? Please recommend which is best game to play VP Jack or better, Double Bonus, Double Double Bonus, Wild Deuces and Bonus Wild Deuces?

3. I read, one need long term bank roll of 3-4 Royal Flash. What is short term bank roll and buy in session for 25 cents 3 plays and $1 max play?

4. Do you accumulate the same comp if you play $5 in $1 max play, $6.25 in 25 cents 5 plays?

Any suggestions to newbie player is welcome!

D

[olds442jetaway]

You need to get either one or more of the following....free program to practice called Wolf Video Poker, purchase a program by Bob Dancer, read up and visit the Wizard of Odds site and use his vp analyzer and there are others. These 3 just came to mind. The paytable and money management is the key. Comps vary widely from casino to casino, but in general, vp receives less comps that regular slots due to their higher payback percentage. Some players will only play games that return close to 100% in the long run. These are hard to find. I will not play any less than 97%. Of course anything can happen in the short run. Study paytables closely as a bad one could be right next to a good one in the same casino. Any game can hit big at any given moment, but in the long run over time the higher the paytable with proper play, the more of your money you will keep. I know this does not answer all of your questions, but others will probably jump in as well with other ideas. Finally, this site is an excellent soruce of information and practice and you can get additional benefits by becomming a paid member for a nominal fee....good luck and good health.....

[Lucky Larry]

Hello to all VP gurus,

I have no idea that VP is beatable game until I run across Bob radio show. That surely peak my interest. I'm a table game player, new to VP and never play any machines. Couple of questions,

1. What is the accurate play % before I should start live play?

2. There are so many different VP machines, they all seem to have Double Double Bonus, are they same? Please recommend which is best game to play VP Jack or better, Double Bonus, Double Double Bonus, Wild Deuces and Bonus Wild Deuces?

3. I read, one need long term bank roll of 3-4 Royal Flash. What is short term bank roll and buy in session for 25 cents 3 plays and $1 max play?

4. Do you accumulate the same comp if you play $5 in $1 max play, $6.25 in 25 cents 5 plays?

Any suggestions to newbie player is welcome!

D


Welcome to the forum.

Q 1 -IMO, I would not begin until you're at least in the 90+% of correct play. You want to play at a high % and not develop bad habits by making poor plays. Remember, in VP every hand has a recommended way to play it. The more you play the correct way the more you improve your odds of winning.


Q-2 Heres what I tell those who are interested in learning VP.
1) Learn two games first - Jacks or Better and Deuces Wild (NSUD-99.73%). I view them as the parents (basis) for all other VP games.
2) Purchase a VP program like previously mentioned, or the one from this site or learn from one of the free VP training sites.
http://www.freeslots.com/poker.(htmhttp ... poker.htm) You can adjust the pay tables to match local machines. We started with FreeSlots until we came upon this site. I would also consider the Pay Table option from this site.
3) Practice, practice, practice....try to reach the highest % of correct play that you can before moving to the other games.
4) Start with a low denomination multiple hand or low denomination single play so your bank roll lasts while you learn. I almost always start with a lower denomination when I begin learning a new game so that mistakes don't cost me as much as high denomination.
5) Read and learn everything you can about VP so you can try to gain every advantage you can. This includes learning about pay tables, how casinos compensate for your play, etc.
6) Play and have fun - know that you will have winning streaks when your timing and luck are great and losing streak even when you play at a high % and do everything right.

DDB is an extremely popular game but has some real drawbacks and can be very volatile.

Q-3 We often only take a $300-400 for an overnight session knowing that if we don't hit on 25¢ we move to multiple hand 5¢.

Q-4 Generally, VP is screwed by the casinos. Our favorite casino only provides 1/2 pt for each $ play compared to slots. In the casinos we play it doesn't matter what denomination you play, the "total coin-in" (how much $ went through the machine) $100 @ 5¢ play gives the same comp as $100 @ $5 play.

A few other hints:
If you are married or have a significant other who will also be learning and playing. Both of you get at least two copies of the player's card. This allows you to both play on one card during a trip which doubles your comps. When we begin at a new casino we will play exclusively on one person's card all visits until we achieve the "Player's Level" of comps we want. Once we start getting say room offers and cash back (which are all based on "coin in") then we rotate to the other person's card and get the same comps and then rotate.
If you stay on a "comp" make sure you play as much as possible on the comped players card.
Learn when the "casino day" begins and ends. Comp play is usually based on "daily average" so playing only an hour or two the second day reduces your average if you played 8 hours the day before. You might switch to the non-comped players card or we play on another family member's card often to help build their comps.

Best of luck

LL

[Quad Deuces]

You only have two decisions to make:1) What game to play2) What cards to holdIf I'm playing quarter, 1-line, I like to have about $500 in my pocket.  Dollars, $2000.  10-line 25c JoB, about $2000.  10-line 10c Super Aces Bonus, about $1000.  It all depends.I would start at the quarter full-pay deuces to get a feel for things.  It really depends on your bankroll.  If you are going to very quickly move to playing more than quarters, I agree with Larry - don't waste your time on FPDW - learn NSU (4-4-10-16) instead.  You can play it for quarters but move up to $2 if you want (Gold Coast) and $1 about everywhere.  It is barely positive (99.73% + .30% = 100.03%) at Stations and South Point 24x7.I highly recommend Video Poker Wizard and WinPoker for the iPhone.  I have Wolf Video Poker but rarely use it over Video Poker for Winners for Windows.  The one thing Wolf gives me over VPW is the ability to add natural 4-of-a-kind bonuses to Deuces Wild pay schedules.Get a copy of Bob's book - Video Poker for the Intelligent Beginner. It's a solid reference you should have on-hand as you're learning.  Check out Jean Scott's books from the Library.  Frugal Video Poker and More Frugal Video Poker I think.  They're a bit dated but most of the tactics still hold up.Practice, Practice, Practice.  Study, Study, Study.

[shadowman]

Winning at video poker is all about the "edge". The bigger the edge the higher the probability you will win. Even playing games right at 100% return will produce more losing years than not. It's simply not that easy to win.

I've been fortunate to find games with edges well over 1% including cashback and freeplay.

[BobDancer]

I'm pleased you found your way to this site.Generally the suggestions put forth so far are good. I'll be teaching classes beginning in September at South Point. Stop by if you're in Vegas then.Bob

[Vman96]

Generally I agree the advice above is pretty good, but unfortunately, a decent amount of "how profitable video poker can be" really lies in where ddd234 lives. If he or she lives where Bob does (Vegas), then hell yeah, you can be significantly profitable at video poker. If he or she lives outside of Nevada, not so much (without ridiculous effort). Competition among casinos is a big, big deal.

[BobDancer]

Generally I agree the advice above is pretty good, but unfortunately, a decent amount of "how profitable video poker can be" really lies in where ddd234 lives. If he or she lives where Bob does (Vegas), then hell yeah, you can be significantly profitable at video poker. If he or she lives outside of Nevada, not so much (without ridiculous effort). Competition among casinos is a big, big deal.Respectively, I disagree --- or at least note there are many exceptions.It's true Vegas has better games than most other places, but it's not true that Vegas is the only place to succeed. There are ways to succeed in many casinos all across the country --- it's just a little different in each one. Occasionally you find games where you can grind out an edge 24/7 (like FPDW in Vegas), but most places you have to pay attention to mailers, double points, drawing tickets, etc., in order to have the edge. It takes awhile to figure this stuff out, and each casino area has it's own secret formula for success.If you think that "If I don't live in Vegas there's no way to win," you've lost most of the battle. Casinos are NOT going to draw you a map on how to beat them. If you believe that there is probably a combination of where to play, when to play, and which game to play that probably gives you the edge in a particular place, you have a shot at finding it.Bob

[BillyJoe]

Good points, all. I would add one thing. How much do you value casino comps, and a high level casino tier status? Most casinos have a Players Card system that tracks play, and will comp you accordingly. In addition to financial give-backs, certain tier statuses allow you 'perks' at the casino that you cannot buy. The larger casino groups (Caesars/Harrah's and MGM) will want you to play at their properties, and as you built status, you will see offers that others may not receive. Also, those two casino groups have locations outside of Vegas, so the perks of your tier status apply everywhere that you play.   
 
You have to decide how valuable the tier status is to you, or if you prefer just playing at locations that offer the best odds at winning. Often, they are not the same locations.   

[Vman96]

If he or she lives outside of Nevada, not so much (without ridiculous effort).

Generally I agree with you Bob, but I still feel this particular statement holds significant weight. I didn't mean to say that areas outside of Nevada could never be profitable ("profitable" > $15/hour). But they will definitely not be easy. And in my case, (< $10,000 assets), they are nearly impossible. Anyone want to give me a good word at IGT to snag a job working on slot machine math so I can gain more assets? lol