good times are gone and not coming back..

[notes1]

i have mentioned before that i knew someone in the casino business. recently, he told me that, for those who played in the 80's thru mid 2000's, they were likely spoiled with VP machines. those days, with a limited number of casinos and a much better economy, allowed the casinos to give back a lot more to customers and still make a big profit.  those days are gone and according to him, unless things change again, it is unlikey, the good ole days are coming back. too many casinos, too few players per casino, higher taxes in many states have just made it too hard for the casinos to ever offer what they did before.  what many of us are experiencing is not an illusion, not something we are making up and not just compalining, it is the new reality.   

[FAA]

Too many in AC? They just shut down four; Taj is on life support. Marina casinos are whooping it up. I'm enjoying the weekly visits, fresh air and breaking even or taking a nominal loss. Never around for the salad days, so low expectations from Jump Street. 

[Carcounter]

Thing were certainly better back in the 1990's and early 2000's for sure. I agree those days are never coming back. Still some playable games though. Hard to get on them on busy days.

[olds442jetaway]

So my question is...Just how are they doing it. Assuming one plays 99% paytables with near perfect play, millions of hands, and yet only gets a 95% return. IMO, has to be something in the programing. Most likely paying out more premium hands at 1 or 2 units bet and less at 5 or more bet. No proof of course. Just my own experience.

[olds442jetaway]

So my question is...Just how are they doing it. Assuming one plays 99% paytables with near perfect play, millions of hands, and yet only gets a 95% return. IMO, has to be something in the programing. Most likely paying out more premium hands at 1 or 2 units bet and less at 5 or more bet. No proof of course. Just my own experience.
     Edited to add this. I already posted about getting clobbered playing my usual way over the weekend. After a long break out in the fresh air, I went back in, pulled my card, put a five dollar bill in a spin poker maching at 3 cents play. Played 5 lines at 3 cents a line and lasted over 2 hours without ever hitting a Royal or deuces quads on a Bonus Deuces Wild game with a 96% paytable. At one point, the five bucks turned into 10. Granted, this is just one short term example, but I could cite similar ones on every trip if I wanted to. There has to be something to this. We just can't put our finger on it and refuse to believe it can happen over and over again based on the belief that the RNGs are really just that.

[notes1]

olds, know nothing about computers or RNG, i cannot even begin to address what you are seeing. because of the way i play, moving from machine to machine, i see a lot more of what is going on, than those who sit at one machine for hours at a time. my experience is that casinos that get a lot of action, like cherokee, i tend to see players getting many more premium hands, than at casinos, where there is a limited number of players. is this a result of what ko king brought up about going thru cycles, i do not know. but, i do believe, the more play a machine gets, the more likely good ends will eventually show up. the question is, are we lucky enough to be at that machine when it does appear?

[FAA]

I still think the young people for the most part have a lack of
interest in vp. They seem more fascinated with the highly animated and interactive penny slots.
They often play somewhere between 2 and 4 bucks a spin and seem to play
in groups.Olds, just a follow up on your Feb post. Manhattan patron hit a Borgata Wizard of Oz $453,000 jackpot last month. At $3.50 a max spin, way above my comfort level. I got the news yesterday and thought it interesting. Good times for him/her!

[FAA]

because of the way i play, moving from machine to machine, i see a lot
more of what is going on, than those who sit at one machine for hours at
a time. my experience is that casinos that get a lot of action, like Cherokee, i tend to see players getting many more premium hands, than at
casinos, where there is a limited number of players.Notes, I absolutely agree with your points. Most of us are way too sedentary and passively accept the protracted losing cycle rut. And I never won at Showboat, a ghost town at the end. The busy AC casinos definitely feature a lot of big winners to go along with all the big losers. I hear some complaining about Golden Nugget tightness. They're not exactly top of mind in town, so it is only to be expected. 

[OTABILL]

i have mentioned before that i knew someone in the casino business. recently, he told me that, for those who played in the 80's thru mid 2000's, they were likely spoiled with VP machines. those days, with a limited number of casinos and a much better economy, allowed the casinos to give back a lot more to customers and still make a big profit.  those days are gone and according to him, unless things change again, it is unlikey, the good ole days are coming back. too many casinos, too few players per casino, higher taxes in many states have just made it too hard for the casinos to ever offer what they did before.
  what many of us are experiencing is not an illusion, not something we are making up and not just compalining, it is the new reality.   

Agree with the above and what Olds, and everyone else is saying. Our experience as well. I and others have posted about RNGs and Pseudo RNGs and I keep wondering if the change has something to do with seeding. the RNG.

[olds442jetaway]

I think the bottom line is this and it is very smart thinking on the casino's part. They hope to wait out our bankroll and our alloted time we can spend playing in the casino. Either way they win if the premium hands don't hit. It is possible I guess if one had a team and say 8 hour shifts and never really leave a machine, the math at some point would come around and the 99.54% return or whatever the paytable stated for that machine would happen. I have seen many Asian players use this method off and on, but not on vp. Their bag is either table games or regular slots for the most part. Very few play vp or if they do, it is just for a few minutes. They do however, seem to like the blackjack option within the vp machines. This statement really is no reflection on any nationality, just using it as an example of how some do use the team approach.

     Edited to add....How many of us upon hitting pretty big early on in a session really do quit for that trip. Speaking just for myself, I think I only did that once or twice. I have cut my play the rest of the day way back in amount and denomination, but alwyas end up losing part or all of any big hits I got early on. Very, very, very, few of us have that kind of discipline. Unfortunately, we just love the game itself too much.