Max Coins vs. Cheap Strategy

[FloridaPhil]

I was asked a few weeks ago if I play with the Cheap Strategy all the time, so I thought I would post my feelings on this issue.  Like many of you I have no choice but to play negative video poker games.  I consider video poker as entertainment and don't mind paying to play, but I don't want to pay more than I have to.  The Cheap Strategy was developed out of necessity.  For example, the Biloxi MS Beau Rivage DW pay schedule is a 95.964% game even in the high limit room.  This means with perfect play and no mistakes you are losing over 4% of your coin in per hour.  The nickel video poker games are so bad my software won't even calculate them.  Keep in mind these are the video poker odds, the slots must be much worse.  It would take incredible luck to walk away with a profit during a 2-3 day stay. If you must play a game with extreme negative odds for any length of time, cutting your losses becomes more important than winning.As the game gets nearer to 100% payback, the advantage of the Cheap Strategy turns into a negative.  I'm not sure where the breaking point is, but I am currently using 98% to make this call.  There are lots of good reasons to play max coins.  Few players would put up with the chance of hitting a $62.50 royal flush.  On the other hand, if you play max coins on a video poker game with terrible odds for any length of time, be prepared to lose more than you want to.  The best way to play these games is to play most of your hands as cheap as you possibly can and use your savings to take a high denomination pot shot once in a while. This is the whole idea behind the Cheap Strategy and it works much better than playing max coins in this environment.   Let the games begin! 

[Mr.Dawes]

Phil, your position seems well thought out and reasonable to me. I am sure there are people who would point out that playing less than max coin makes that 95.9% paytable even worse. However, you point revolves around limiting total dollars at risk instead of a percentage of your bankroll.Reading your post led me to think about a slightly different dilemma that VP players face. Playing the game you most enjoy vs. the high paytable in the casino. While it is true that the Beau does not offer any good paytables, there are better games available. I know you are aware of this but you choose to play the game you most enjoy as do I. Biloxi is my closest option and the best quarter game there that I know of is airport deuces at the Insomnia bar at the IP which has a progressive Royal. That was my motivation for learning airport deuces and have been playing on my recent trips but find myself going back to 9/5 DDB because I enjoy it more.On Labor Day weekend I will be making my first trip to Tunica and will be staying at Sam's Town. Vman96 let me know that there only 99+% game is JoB. Unfortunately I don't enjoy this game and would only play it if it is the best game by at least 3%. Sorry if I drifted too far from your original topic.

[Minn. Fatz]

Me, I play max coin on the best paytable I can find but at the lowest denomination, these days Super Times Pay 6/6 BP for nickles. Our compacts cap VP expected return at 98/5%

[wildman49]

For players like me playing a system is the only way to play many hours two or three days per week. If I could go and play say 2-3 hours I would just play max bet. But once I am there I want to play all day 6 to 8 hours is a normal trip. Have had a few 14-12 hour marathons as well! Like Phil I want to play as cheap as I can, still enjoy the games and not got home broke. I play many systems (non max bet) most are my own I have been working on this year. I love Phil's DW system, its a great one. There are times I just want to play other games. The only game I play max bet and its not often is 9/6 JOB  20 coin nickels machines, most times playing just 10 coins.

[WVRadar]

I was asked a few weeks ago if I play with the Cheap Strategy all the time, so I thought I would post my feelings on this issue.









Just wondering Phil, has playing the Cheap Video Strategy affected your comps?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=WVRadar]Just wondering Phil, has playing the Cheap Video Strategy affected your comps[/quote]Yes, but not as much as you would think.   It definitely has an affect on free play and comp points.  When I play max coin quarters at the Hard Rocks, I usually receive $20-$40 in free play and my comp points increase by about $20 a day.  Playing the Cheap strategy hardly moves these numbers.  On the other hand, when the casinos have some kind of special free play offer, I do receive them.  The MLife comps at the Beau Rivage are almost worthless, so it doesn't really matter much to us.Free rooms are a completely different issue.   Most east coast casinos will comp hotel rooms as long as you demonstrate the willingness to play in their casino for any length of time no matter how you play.   I thought for a while that the Beau Rivage would cut us off when we played the Cheap Strategy, but they sent us more offers than ever.  They even increased our offer to 5 nights free if we want.  This is a smart move for them as the odds are so bad you'll could easily pay $1,000 for a "free" room.  Seriously negative odds are difficult to overcome with comps.  As I stated before, there is a breaking point where this goes the other way. 

[notes1]

Reading your post led me to think about a slightly different dilemma that VP players face. Playing the game you most enjoy vs. the high paytable in the casino. 
  i/m/o, this is one of the best posts i have ever read and it opens up a wide variety of conversations. if one likes playing one game, but another has a better paytable, or if one is comfortable playing quarters, but a dollar machine has a better paytable. what if a better paytable is in smoking section, but one wants to be smoke free, or if a better paytable is near a loud section of the casino and the list goes on.  i do not have have the answers for all, but for myself, i want to play a game that i enjoy. if that requires reduced potential, so be it.  great topic, mr dawes.  

[FloridaPhil]

I may enjoy playing a certain game for a while, but if I keep losing more than I'm comfortable with I find something else to play.  DDB is a great example.  I loved the game and played it for years.   It busted me so many times I thought it was normal.  When I switched to deuces, I found I had more fun and more money in the bank. What's fun about losing 9 days out of 10? 

[olds442jetaway]

I agree notes. Playing vp can be compared to one's former career sometimes. For instance, my wife still loves teaching 1st grade and wants to hang in there a couple of more years because she loves working with the little ones. Unfortunately, the idiot bureaucracy that runs the show ruins most of the job satisfaction. I myself packed it in 12 years ago after 35 years because of the same thing though in a different field. I probably would have stayed on at lease 5 more years. At least to me it seems the higher you go, the dumber they are and delegate everything for the most part.
     Anyway, with vp, we have a choice. Leave the bureaucracy at the door and move on to the next machine without worrying about the consequences to other life events.

[FAA]

or if a better pay table is near a loud section of the casino----------------------------------------------------------------------------That's my situation. Love 9/6 qtr JOB, hate the bank location. Smoking, waitress portal proximity. At the adjacent casino, all up against a wall is nice. But they're uprights. No forearm rest, no drink or phone rest. Must make repetitive arm extensions each hand. It's gotten too uncomfortable to play these. The first in the line is also adjacent to the damn ticket redemption machine! Genius placement at work.