The CS Mindset

[FloridaPhil]

This question keeps coming up on this forum, so I thought I would give you something to think about over the holidays.  The question is "Why would anyone play single coin quarter video poker?"  What's the point anyway?This whole issue for me swings on why I enjoy playing video poker in the first place.   Gambling is always a balancing act between winning and losing.  The house almost always has an edge, so why do you think this game is beatable long term and do you really care?  I think a lot of these issues have to do with our competitive natures.  A guy like Bob Dancer continually announces that he makes $100K or more playing video poker and we are somehow inferior because we can't do the same thing.  This gets everyone fired up trying to prove he's wrong which leads us right into the trap the casinos have set for us. I'm not blaming Bob Dancer for our loses, but I'm not fool enough to think I can do the same thing on the machines I play.  I enjoy video poker for the game itself.  For me, it's a chance to get out of the house for the day, enjoy the casino atmosphere and maybe come home with a couple of bucks extra.  What I hate more than anything is being robbed for the experience.   What good is it if I win $1,000 one week just to lose $10K or more over a year's time?  This makes he happy for one day and depressed as hell the rest of the time.  I'm OK with paying to play, but the long term cost of max coin play is totally out of control as far as I'm concerned.I considered giving up the game, but I enjoy it so much that I decided to go another direction.   Do I always play cheap?  No, but I do when I need to keep from digging a big financial hole.  Do I think everyone should play the way I do?  Heck No!  Play the way you want, but know there are alternative strategies that will allow you to enjoy the game without walking around depressed because of the money it costs you to chase someone else's results.  Am I depressed if I hit a $62.50 royal?  Some yes, but I also know that playing CS I could turn a quarter into a $1,000, so to me that $62.50 royal is just another small jackpot that happens on the journey to the hand I really want.   Give it a try, you might like the results more than what you're doing now.  Have a Happy Holiday! 

[wildman49]

I use CS every trip and can't play any other way. I try to play on 20 coin machines to get the full royal payout, But when I can't get it going on them I move to the 5 coin machines. Thanks for sharing the system Phil and we both know it can and does work to save the empty pocket ride home. Happy Holidays to you and the Mrs.!

[FAA]

happens on the journey to the hand I really want.-----------------------------------------------------------------My CS starts at two coins now. The $62.50 post RF depression is awful. I play JOB, so the RF is the hand I really want! Journey's End, a great Broadway play. I know playing cheap is not as effective as DW CS. So my main goal for 2016 is slowly acclimating, with at least an hour of DW play per visit. I will also transfer my funds to my bag each time I enter the dreaded Roman emperor's casino, which I can admittedly bypass. It's the biggest money pit in town, and my discipline has withered when faced with its massive sucker base donating at breakneck speed.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]My CS starts at two coins now.[/quote]50 cents is a better game where I do most of my local play. The difference in quarter and 50 cents odds is nearly 2%, which more than makes up for the royal flush penalty.  I also like it because a real royal pays $125 and a quad deuce pays $100.   I have hit a number of $500 max coin quad deuces at 50 cents, which makes for a nice day.   I don't think CS has much value at anything higher than $1 play as you may as well play max coins and take your chances.

[FAA]

Full pay abounds here, of course. I also envision the $125 RF opportunity. Now that I have two solid non boardwalk casino options, I hope to relax even further. It's all the more reason to leave the ice cold casinos in my rear view. I am more likely to fire up the DW when I sit down at my new spots. More juice with the deuce

[FloridaPhil]

I think you'll enjoy DW once you get used to it.  CS definitely works much better with it. I wouldn't sweat the small penalty hands too much.  CS success depends upon how many max coin hands you hit, not getting a mathematical edge of some sort.  DW is exciting all by itself, add in an occasional max coin jackpot and you have a game that is fun even at super low denominations.  What you will really like is leaving the casino with some money in your pocket.  Subtracting all the 5 coin losing hands from your jackpots will rarely keep you in the black long term unless you hit more than your share of quad deuces or royal flushes.  If you don't hit enough, losses build to a point where you can never recover.  This is the big lie behind the strategy of max coin play and why comps are so important to professionals.  As the game return plus comps exceeds 100%, CS becomes less useful.  If you have access to Bob Dancer's games and comps and can afford to play at his level, you don't need CS.  Even playing quarters, I occasionally run into situations where comps have real value to me and I switch to max coin play.

Some CS players will stay with quarters and enjoy the lower cost.  I like to use some of my savings to take frugal pot shots on the big machines.   It takes discipline to keep from overdoing it.   Over last year I hit a $1,000 quad deuce 4 times after putting $20 in a machine.   Bob Dancer called me a liar for stating I was ahead with CS.  When you hit $4,000 worth of jackpots playing mostly single coin quarters, you stay ahead for a long time.  Lucky indeed, but it shows you what can happen.

[wildman49]

I am still playing on the 4k royal I hit 13 months ago using CS. I bet you can't find one max bet player at the $1 level that is still playing on a win from a year ago. When you get a nice hit even the $250 deuces your going home feeling good knowing you beat up on the casino again. Big hits of $1000 are great but any small win over and over when you head home  is a great feeling.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=wildman49]I bet you can't find one max bet player at the $1 level that is still playing on a win from a year ago.[/quote]Back when I played max coins all the time, I would occasionally hit a royal flush on a three day trip and still go home a loser.  As a recreational player this was extremely depressing.  I also used to be afraid to learn exactly how much I lost in a year and would avoid tallying it all up.  I'm pretty sure most players on this forum don't want to know this either.  If you do know and you're OK with it... Great.  If you're not, stop giving your money to the casino and try something different.  No one is going to criticize you for losing less unless you announce it on this website and you won't care.  

[FAA]

If you don't hit enough, losses build to a point where you can never recover. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I even try to adhere to this within a single session. There is no use staying on a machine after a $30 loss. A quad would only get me even. But I'd be betting scared and short coining by then. So figure a twenty dollar loss for the hour. And JOB doesn't even offer much excitement for the money. The main goal is to retain the bankroll. I have to CS and pray that the quad is at least a four coin hit. I can't gamble in packed casinos anymore because I get swept up in the peer pressure and max bet much more than usual, with predictable results!

[olds442jetaway]

CS on Deuces didn't work out so well for me Wed night, but I know that will happen without quad deuces or a Royal. All things being under control at home tonight, I may run up late PM and try this since it won't cost me much and I can finish my stocking stuffer shopping up there too.
     At Mohegan, I have access to the nickel games on spin poker that pay 800 for 1 for the royal for just 1 nickel bet. I intend to start with just 3 lines at 1 nickel each. To equal a hit of 4 or more, my total for a deal and draw will have to be at least 12 nickels since each deal costs me 3. When that happens, I am going to max bet which on this machine is 10 nickels per line. I haven't decided yet if I will play all ten on the three lines or maybe try the pot shot on 5 lines with 5 nickels per line. The bottom line is it shouldn't cost much to play, I can finish my errands, listen to some nice Christmas music, and catch some good late night snacks too. Hope the Mrs. decides to go with me. She is really busy with school stuff and Christmas. I don't know if CS will reward me on a multi line game and also the paytable is only 25/16/13/4/3/2/1. At least it pays good for the wild royal, 5 of a kind, and the straight flush. Everyone have a safe and healthy weekend. Don't drink too much eggnog... I wonder if they make Eggnog flavored beer for Vman... ...