Tight kiosk promos

[wildman49]

A year ago the casino I play at had in its monthly flier to give an updated email to the players club and get $10 in free play. So cool done. Then we start getting emails to come in Fridays starting at 9am for a chance to win $10 to $1000 in free play at the kiosk. So my buddy and I have Fridays off at work so off we go. At 9am its 6 to 8 deep at the kiosk! Well we get our turn and we each get $10.Well a year later and we still go and at 9am guess what, no line at all. I went to 51 of 52 weeks since it was once a week, both of us never seen anything above $10. Now whatever happened to $15 or even $20 since one could win up to $1000 in free play. This is why this casino is hurting, BAD promos.You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it! Well I must be thirsty!

[Vman96]

Yeah, that's pretty bad. These promos are heavily weighted toward $10 (the minimum prize), but usually 10 to 15% of the time you might get $15+ if it's run decently. When it comes to promos like this...I would say a decent "weighted average" for these is double the minimum prize.

I would be interested to hear what Bob and others who pay close attention to promos think what the typical expected value of these type of promos are.

[wildman49]

Yeah, that's pretty bad. These promos are heavily weighted toward $10 (the minimum prize), but usually 10 to 15% of the time you might get $15+ if it's run decently. When it comes to promos like this...I would say a decent "weighted average" for these is double the minimum prize.

I would be interested to hear what Bob and others who pay close attention to promos think what the typical expected value of these type of promos are.Well here in Mid Michigan, from this casino you have to drive 1 1/2 hours in any direction to get to another one. Soaring Eagle is one of the best in the state for size and do have some good promos, but its not like the Vegas market, no other casinos in the area to keep them from scalping people.

[notes1]

i have no specific knowledge, but i would be surprised if these promos were random at all. i would think the offer is pre-programmed to the player's gambling history, just llike all offers. if you stop going for awhile, you just might see your offers increase, as they try to get you back. 

[Vman96]

i have no specific knowledge, but i would be surprised if these promos were random at all. i would think the offer is pre-programmed to the player's gambling history, just llike all offers. if you stop going for awhile, you just might see your offers increase, as they try to get you back. 

Depending on jurisdiction, this may also against regulations. However this is an area a casino is much more likely to bend the rules over. I remember reading the Venetian in Las Vegas got caught rigging a drawing a while back.

[alpax]

I believe I've read a past article from Mr. Dancer on the LVA archive with regards to this topic. I looked back and found it. Just this one article very much expresses his opinion.

Bob Dancer Las Vegas Advisor Article November 19 2013 - Sometimes I Prefer Unfair Games

Some key highlighted points about the promotional kiosks.

[QUOTE]
As I understand the rules in Nevada, if the game LOOKS like real gambling paraphernalia, then it must be fair. That is, if the kiosk depicts regular dice being rolled, then the RNG (pseudo Random Number Generator for you sticklers out there) must have ace-ace coming up 1-in-36 times. On the other hand, if the kiosk game requires you to select one of several cartoonish penguins, as an example, there is no legal requirement that the results be equally likely. (Full disclosure: My understanding is based on conversations with machine manufacturers rather than a careful review of the law.)
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
If I've played $1,000,000 coin-in over the past month and go to a kiosk for a "random" prize, it's reasonable to expect that my prize will be greater than the guy who only played $200. If the casino is forced to give everybody the same chance, big players are penalized. If the casino is allowed to weight the chance of the bigger prizes being awarded to their more valuable customers, big players are rewarded. I prefer the latter system.
I understand that players who don't play big are better served by random games rather than weighted games. I also understand that players often complain if THIS PARTICULAR GAME isn't best for them. That is, they want weighted games at the casinos where they play the heaviest and random games at the ones where they barely play. Whichever way the casino runs their promotions, some players will complain about it.
[/QUOTE]

I have not got around to catching up on writing the trip reports on the visits to the nearby casino the last two months, I was going to include the promotional wheel that happens about two days out of two different months in the year. Since this topic was brought up, might as well bring it up.

I played up to the upper tier wheel where a player gets anywhere between $50 to $5000 in slot play. Most people settle for the lower tier wheel where a player gets anywhere between $10 to $1000, like wildman49's premise.

I got the minimum $50 on one trip and slightly above the minimum $55 on the other trip. I am not complaining as it is better to have this than nothing at all.





I've seen most people get $10 or $15, a few $20 or $25 on the lower tier wheel. Those that play more, I see lots of $50/$55, a few people get $75 and I witnessed one person get $100 and another get $250.

People who play there think that the people who earn the bigger prizes are the ones that go near the end. There has to be a specific budget for this promotion so small amounts are given away early, if it is less than expected. No one knows anyone that won the grand prize of $1000 or $5000. On the casino twitter page, I did see a screenshot of someone winning $1000.

[wildman49]

I did think the same about the more coin in would see more at the kiosk but so far not true. The month of November I put well over $70,000 coin in according to players club, more then double any prior month still $10 the 3 trips this month to the kiosk.

[notes1]

vman, poster did not say what casino he played, i doubt indian casinos, in many areas have any rules that are being checked on. the casino management person i know told me the only time they see a state regulator (not nevada) is when someone complains to regulatory authority. the notion that regulators are roaming around, checking out casinos/machines in many jurisdictions, is something i doubt happens.   

[Vman96]

vman, poster did not say what casino he played, i doubt indian casinos, in many areas have any rules that are being checked on. the casino management person i know told me the only time they see a state regulator (not nevada) is when someone complains to regulatory authority. the notion that regulators are roaming around, checking out casinos/machines in many jurisdictions, is something i doubt happens.   

If it's an Indian casino (which many MI casinos are) then all bets are definitely off. And yeah, enforcement of regulation will vary greatly among areas. I am definitely aware that casinos may break regulations to squeak out more dimes. Especially if they think the benefit outweighs the potential penalty if they get caught.

But even in scenarios like alpax described, most of these promos are heavily weighted toward the minimum prize.

Last time I did a kiosk game it was in Tunica a couple of weeks ago. swipe to get anywhere between 2 and 15X multiplier. I was surprised that 2 out of 3 people got 4X...the other got 2X of course.

[wildman49]

If it's an Indian casino (which many MI casinos are) then all bets are definitely off. Yes Indian run casino, there is a BIG sign on the wall "This Casino Is Not Regulated By The State of Michigan".