Recreational Money Management

[FloridaPhil]

Professionals tell us they never play video poker unless they have an advantage.   They say they are able to play 100% computer perfect for years at a time.  Running out of money is never an issue because all play is one continuous string of events and with math on their side, they will profit in the long term.  I am not disputing any of these statements.  If video poker professional strategy didn't work, there wouldn't be any professional players.If you are a professional player or wish to play like one, you don't need me to tell you anything.   There are mountains of books on the subject.   No book can make disadvantaged games advantaged.  Recreational video poker play is different.  Most RPs (Recreational Players) don't have access to positive games.  Most can't play anywhere near perfect long enough and running out of money is always an issue.  In addition, RPs have different goals.   Everyone wants to make money.  RPs also want to play as long as possible and they are concerned with short term results.Most RPs lack a well defined goal.   When you go to the casino what do you want to happen?  Are you playing for a royal?  If so, you might have a long wait.  You will have many days where you walk out with empty pockets and a rare few with a smile on your face.  Are you playing for a substantial jackpot?  How much is enough to get you to walk out?If you are playing for fun, how much fun is enough?  What we need is a plan that fits our unique needs.  My goal is to walk out with at least the same amount of money I came in with.  Obvious I do not always make my goal.  The next best thing is to walk out with some money left.   Most RPs play until their money is gone.   This causes problems.  When you start to run out of money, you go on tilt.  You up your denomination or switch to high variance games in an attempt to catch back up.  You may even hit the ATM and make matters worse.What does a Recreational Play money management system look like?  You can't control the cards that are deal to you.  You can control the games you play, the amount of your bets and when you walk out.  Nothing can prevent losing all your money on a bad day.  But you can hold these days to a minimum.Try this for a few weeks and see how it works for you.  Assuming you are going to play quarters, break your money down into $20 bills.  Consider each $20 bill as a separate mini session.  Whenever the counter reaches $50, cash out and put the white ticket where you can't get to it easily.  Put in another $20 bill and keep playing.  When you are out of cash, it's time to evaluate.  Are you ahead or behind?  Have you had enough or are you going for broke?  If it's the later you run the risk of getting your wish.  Whatever you decide to do, you will know there was a point of decision.  The casino will be open tomorrow.Obviously, this only works if you brought enough money with you to satisfy your desire to play as long as you want.  Train yourself to leave with some money left.   It's not easy, but once you get used to the idea it gets easier.   It won't guarantee you a profit, but it will make you a happier RP.

[stevel96a1]

you know i been thinking about what you said Phil about altering your bets to increase your win. i came to the conclusion it is best to alter your bets before and after bankrolls not inbetween, for example you start with 4000 credit with .25 you double or nothing and if you wish to increase it go from .50 or higher but tempering with bets with a 1k$ BR on .25 and all a sudden to a 5$ or 10$ will assure failure, just last night at work  i played 9/6 JoB november31 free vp game for android, i got a straight flush with .25 and was so mad so i switched back to 5$ and got a 4oaks and a little after the royal flushso my point being yes you do have to increase your bets but only if your BR can support the highs and lows, changing inbetween hands will make things poor. also over the years i have collected several different smart phones from me and my wife and  able to play VP on each of them supposing these are for real money some of my phones take my money and others give, i heard this wacky theory about RNG how some are biased and others are not and i been told vp sessions all piggy back on each other i am not sure which to believe but needless to say i played 4,000 turns and boom RF and other phones 10k turns and 3k turns and no RF , did jumping from RNG aid me? or was it just right time right place?  i will be pondering this at work tonight

[FloridaPhil]

When you increase your bet you are playing bigger which requires a bigger bankroll.  For example, my average bet is actually around $2 a hand which means my downturns will be deeper than if I stay at $1.25 a hand.There is nothing magic about moving up or down in denomination.  It can not turn a negative VP game positive or keep you from ever losing.  The fear of losing is what causes problems in VP.   It's part of the game and there is no way to avoid it.  If you are a long term winner on the last day of your life, you'll have all the bragging rights you'll ever have.My wife and I observe this all the time.  We keep separate bankrolls.  She plays max coin quarters exclusively ($1.25).  Her cost to play is less than mine, but she never gets a hand pay.   I lose more on average then come roaring back when I hit a 50 cent or dollar royal.  I don't like to play big all the time.  I only move up when I'm significantly ahead.  If I always played max coin dollars or larger, I would experience losses greater than I am comfortable with.   I enjoy playing cheaper and hitting a bigger jackpot without the investment in bankroll.  This works if the odds on both games are the same.   It gets a little more difficult if they change as the hand strategy sometimes changes as well.The excitement of moving up in denomination is another way to make the game more entertaining.  I use this strategy when I play Jacks or Bonus Poker.  Those games can get pretty boring without something to spice them up a bit.  Last week I switched from quarter to 50 cent play and hit a $2,000 royal flush.  This week it didn't happen.  The craziest thing that ever happened to me was when I switched from single coin quarter CS to dollar CS and hit a $4,000 royal.  Talk about getting lucky!There is nothing bias about a RNG.  It's just a computer chip that picks numbers at random.  Random means there is no predetermined program involved and anything that can happen is possible.   A hot machine can go cold in a heartbeat and vice versa.  I like to move between machines when I play.   I don't believe it helps or hurts my results, but it does make me feel better.  It also slows my play, which helps when you play negative games.In years past when I tried something new and it worked, I always believed I had discovered some kind of secret.  It always works until it doesn't, then you are right back where you started.  Trying new things is part of the fun of video poker.  Nothing feels better than moving up in denomination and hitting a big jackpot.  As long as I don't convince myself I had anything to do with it, no harm done. 

[Jstark]

Here's the best money management...JUST STAY HOME!!!

If you're just trying to stretch your $$$ and want to play, and I've mentioned this before, find a 1 cent game and bet 1 cent at a time SLOWLY.

[billryan]

Phil has repeatedly stated his goal isn't to make money, it's to get away from his house and whatever for a few hours. A couple of hundred dollars is a small price for a few hours freedom.

[FAA]

No, it's a huge price. He can see a film as its director intended, on a movie screen, for a tenth of that cost or less. Florida Phil at the Flicks.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]Phil has repeatedly stated his goal isn't to make money, it's to get
away from his house and whatever for a few hours. A couple of hundred
dollars is a small price for a few hours freedom.[/quote]Everyone plays VP for a different reason.  I play VP as a hobby.   I have other hobbies.  I have an extensive car collection and a 3,000 sq. ft. garage.  Turning wrenches is a different kind of challenge than VP.    I have a big investment in my cars.  I don't try to make money from my hobbies, but I occasionally do.My VP hobby gives me an enjoyable pastime for one day a week and a great way to share vacations with my wife of 52 years.  We don't care about math.  We don't care to spend precious time fretting over .03% hand plays.   All we want from VP is the fun of hitting a jackpot once in a while. So called "professional video poker" distorts VP into something it was never intended to be.  Years ago a few people exploited some advantages they had uncovered in VP.   The casinos didn't understand the ramifications of offering games with a positive return and they surely didn't believe anyone could beat the game.  They were proven wrong.Those days are gone, but players still cling to the past.  After years of losses, how can some players still believe in advantage play?  Because they desperately want it to be true.  There is a whole industry dedicated to promoting this dream.  Websites have been built, software developed, piles of books and hours of discussion, all about gaining a tiny advantage over a billion dollar industry.   Who profits from this?  The sellers of this material obviously do.  So do the casinos.  Many players like me were first drawn into a casino by VP.  If there is a game that is beatable, we want some of the action!Video poker is not investing.  There is no due diligence or research that can warrant a positive return.  You are at the mercy of a mindless computer chip selecting numbers with no discernible or predictable pattern.   You are wagering a guess that you will be right about something you can never predict or control.  In other words, you are gambling.Once you get to a certain level of knowledge and skill, all VP results are determined at random.   Some players will win and some will lose.   VP gives me great enjoyment and pleasure.  When I win, I don't believe I'm an expert.   When I lose, I don't believe it's because I'm not intelligent enough to win.   People who make those claims are doing it for a purpose.  To some, it justifies spending their lives gambling.  To a few, it provides them with a "Nice Lifestyle".Whatever you believe, there is no reason to disparage someone else because they don't think like you do.  There is one tough lesson I have learned over the years.   It is possible to be wrong at times.  This is not one of those times. 

[DougJ]

Excellent points, Phil, in your post above.

There is a grand old reason that some people hold themselves out as "professional" or "advantage" players these days, despite the SEISMIC shift in VP programming. Simple: sell books, software, professing that you, too, can win at VP. Nonsense. If you have to push your wares constantly, like you are in a Moroccan market stall, the reason is because there is no other way you are making money.

As for the "advantage" players: ho, ho, ho. They surely have a rented storage unit, stuffed with casino gifts. Wow, this week alone, I might collect a pair of candles, a cheap tool kit, a bottle of cheap wine. AND, lest we forget, they have eaten some really mediocre meals "free" at the casino restaurants.

Woo Hoo.

[case]

Doug. You keep thinking like that and we will keep reaping the benefits from casinos that need players like you. You are supporting us and don’t even know it. Again thank you and keep playing.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=case]You keep thinking like that and we will keep reaping the benefits
from casinos that need players like you. You are supporting us and don’t
even know it. Again thank you and keep playing.
[/quote]Some people are consumed with gambling.  I have even heard stories on this forum of people who have uprooted themselves and moved to Vegas so they can gamble 24/7.  One even posted recently that he can have his dog groomed with comps.  When your whole life revolves around gambling, you don't have room for anything else.  I don't think that is living an "Advantaged Life".  Those of us on the outside play Video Poker for entertainment.  We don't give a damn about VP math, comps, 1% hand plays and who is an AP or not.   I doubt I am paying any AP bills.  If I am, they are living in a tent out in the desert.I had a record year in the market last year. I started trimmed back my stock holdings a few months ago and posted it on this forum.   I am now buying back my stocks at bargain  prices.  Do I gloat at all the people who lost money in the market last week because they are paying my bills?  We all know who started this kind of talk.  It was designed to sell books and software and it works.