RNG Questions

[FloridaPhil]

This forum is so full of BS it's amazing. Beat the casino? Sure. Make a million dollars in six months? Why not? Run up a bunch of W2-Gs so you can brag about being a winner? No problem.

What we don't talk about is losses. Anyone can be winner if you leave them out. Why do you think the Government taxes video poker and not live poker? You can't bluff or read a video poker machine. Hitting a jackpot on a video poker machine is pure luck. Players who play real machines know this all too well.

I post playing 25 cents a hand is a cheaper way to play 96% video poker games and some members say I'm lying? Who's kidding who? Even the World's Greatest Video Poker expert agrees with me and the diehards still argue.

Here's why they don't like what I post. Because it would force them to admit they don't control what happens when they play video poker. They would have to admit they are taking risks with their money. No skill or strategy can force a royal flush or any other hand to happen.

We are on a GAMBLING website forum. We may have different opinions on how best to play the game. "Best" is not always the same thing. The Recreational Forum is for players are do not or can not play profitable video poker games. I am very careful to say this when I post. I say I play video poker for entertainment. My definition of entertainment may not be the same as yours. What some members want is a forum where everyone agrees with them. That's never going to happen.

[OTABILL]

Once again a Forum thread has gotten off-track. In addition, repetition is endemic. just my perspective.

[onemoretry]

What some members want is a forum where everyone agrees with them. That's never going to happen.

It seems to me that you could be describing yourself. You claim to be open minded, but as soon as someone disagrees with one of your oft repeated misstatements or self contradictions, your knickers knot right up.

[FloridaPhil]

It seems to me that you could be describing yourself. You claim to be open minded, but as soon as someone disagrees with one of your oft repeated misstatements or self contradictions, your knickers knot right up.

That's not true at all. What I want is a Recreational Forum where players can openly discuss any way of playing video poker they wish without someone attempting to derail it. If I want to play single coin VP to stretch my bankroll, why should that be any business of Bill Ryans? If Olds wants to use Martingale clone strategy, he should be able to do what he wants with his own money. We have a Strategy Forum for those players who believe math can predict results. I don't post there. Those players should leave us in peace and go about their business.

I think video poker Advantage Play Strategy is good for everyone. Do I think it is solely responsible for making anyone a millionaire? NO. Do I think it sells a lot of books and fill casinos with hopeful players? For sure. Do I think parts of it help me to get more enjoyment out of my visits to the casino? Absolutely. It's good for the game.

Most video poker players are not professionals. They're people like me who just want to have some fun and "maybe" make a little money. They're concerned about losses. They don't have unlimited video poker bankrolls. They want to play a long time with their money and not get cleaned out waiting for a royal flush. That takes a different strategy than someone who's total motivation for playing video poker is profit.

[onemoretry]

What I want is a Recreational Forum where players can openly discuss any way of playing video poker they wish without someone attempting to derail it.

If, by "derailing it" you mean commenting adversely on a style of play that is unconventional and totally without logic that is simply not going to happen. Similarly, if someone posts a totally off the wall opinion on something, they will receive negative feedback.

[FloridaPhil]

"Totally without logic" is your own opinion. Some players have different goals than you do. For example. My wife likes to hit more royals, so she forgoes a little profit to make this happen and she gets what she wants. I wish to play longer cheaper, so I give up long term profit to play longer. Is that logical? Depends on what you want.

If profit is your only motive, then you should play according to the math. If it's something else, you make whatever adjustments work for you. Today, hardly anyone has positive video poker games to play. Few players have no limits on the amount of money they will risk before they hit a royal. The video poker described in those books is not the video poker most of us play. If you can play those games the way professionals do, that's great. Most players can't or don't wish to.

There are no books telling you how to beat a 96% video poker game. That's because you can't. We do the best we can to reach the goals we have. Different goals, different strategy.

[onemoretry]

What your wife does is logical. She knows there could be a long term cost to going for more royals, and is willing to pay that potential cost for the chance of hitting more royals.

Illogical are things like:
-bet big at the start because that's when the machines will pay
-leave a machine after a big hit because it won't hit again
-if a machine doesn't pay something in the first ten hands, change machine because it's in a cold cycle
-if you win three hands in a row up your bet because the machine is hot

And, of course, there are many, many more.

FWIW, I do not consider your approach to be totally illogical, i.e., if you are determined to play, and the games available to you are significantly negative, and loss minimization is a priority, bet small.

[FloridaPhil]

I appreciate your comments. All I want on this forum is a place where Recreational video poker players can discuss playing the game as they enjoy it without having their every word dissected and demeaned. You are not going to turn everyone into an Advantage Player. Few players have everything that requires. If that's all we ever talk about, it leaves the vast majority of players out of the discussion.

Understanding and tolerance is what we are talking about here. If you believe small time players are stupid for paying your bills, fine. At least let us do it in peace.

[Webman]

Phil, you are not being attacked for being a recreational player and nobody is trying to convince you to be one. This topic started off very well with people of all types having a good discussion about the RNG with some useful info. Several pages worth (quite the achievement lately).

I've just re-read this very (very very) long thread to see exactly how we got off so far off track and where this arguing actually began.

When this derailment and bickering started was when the following comment was made by someone:

Here's a better plan. Buy Apple stock (AAPL). Own it. Don't sell it. How would you feel if you made a 6% profit from your video poker? You can earn that return from owning pieces of solid companies like ATT while sitting at home. Of course you wouldn't have the enjoyment of hitting a royal.

Some people didn't care for that particular advice (which has nothing to do with the present subject) because is was not also including any mention of the obvious risks in picking stocks (something you personally claim is very important in video poker, and so should be equally important to you when mentioning stocks). It is a fair objection. You did go on to discuss diversification in stock buying, which is good. But again... totally unrelated.

At that point we were completely off the rails from the good RNG discussion that had been taking place, but could have gotten back... After which, for some reason, the discussion took another turn by bringing up Bob Dancer and how it is not his real name and questioning whether his winnings were from video poker or other matters. Something that you have brought up countless times on this forum, and again is very unrelated to the subject being discussed. So yes, people objected that as well.

So as you can see, the derailments and objections to your posts in this thread have had nothing to do with you being a recreational player. In fact, they nothing to do with video poker at all.

You've said you would not talk about Bob Dancer in the recreational forum any more. Nothing anyone said prompted your comment about him here and it always leads to things going off track.

Please confirm you have read and understand this post and maybe there is still hope of getting back to a discussion about RNG's.

[Vman96]

Phil, you are not being attacked for being a recreational player and nobody is trying to convince you to be one. This topic started off very well with people of all types having a good discussion about the RNG with some useful info. Several pages worth (quite the achievement lately).

I've just re-read this very (very very) long thread to see exactly how we got off so far off track and where this arguing actually began.

When this derailment and bickering started was when the following comment was made by someone:

Here's a better plan. Buy Apple stock (AAPL). Own it. Don't sell it. How would you feel if you made a 6% profit from your video poker? You can earn that return from owning pieces of solid companies like ATT while sitting at home. Of course you wouldn't have the enjoyment of hitting a royal.

Some people didn't care for that particular advice (which has nothing to do with the present subject) because is was not also including any mention of the obvious risks in picking stocks (something you personally claim is very important in video poker, and so should be equally important to you when mentioning stocks). It is a fair objection. You did go on to discuss diversification in stock buying, which is good. But again... totally unrelated.

At that point we were completely off the rails from the good RNG discussion that had been taking place, but could have gotten back... After which, for some reason, the discussion took another turn by bringing up Bob Dancer and how it is not his real name and questioning whether his winnings were from video poker or other matters. Something that you have brought up countless times on this forum, and again is very unrelated to the subject being discussed. So yes, people objected that as well.

So as you can see, the derailments and objections to your posts in this thread have had nothing to do with you being a recreational player. In fact, they nothing to do with video poker at all.

You've said you would not talk about Bob Dancer in the recreational forum any more. Nothing anyone said prompted your comment about him here and it always leads to things going off track.

Please confirm you have read and understand this post and maybe there is still hope of getting back to a discussion about RNG's.

Thank you Webman for clearly laying out how a thread involving Phil often goes.

As for RNGs, I side in the camp that they behave as very accurate representations of random behavior, and the casinos make their money on VP from paytables below 100% return plus player errors.

I can see the arguments for a casino to do more dubious things like cheat, but from a practical perspective, i think it's risky for them to consider it. Also the casino would also need to hire dubious employees to help execute rigging the game. Why don't you let math and volume do the work? It seems like much less heartache.