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notes, I do not always adhere to the math when playing video poker nor do I let my play be dictated by influence from outside sources such as "the vegas pro." I play video poker the way I want to play it and entertainment is foremost for me. If I win when playing then it is more enjoyable but if I lose, then so be it because I walked into a casino with a certain amount of money that was disposable either way.
I do not cave to peer pressure and I play the video poker games that I like to play, when I want to play them. Some people play JOB for the sole reason of trying to grind out a, usually small, profit. The way to get around this is to (obviously) play higher denominations but playing JOB is just not the game for me. Because I am so used to playing TDB or DDB at a minimum, I would absolutely cringe if I looked up at AWAK when playing JOB.
As for my win percentage, I attribute it to me stopping play when I feel comfortable. If I manage to hit for a nice win I will then set a loss limit and adhere to it. Because I said earlier that I walk into a casino expecting to lose whatever money I walked in with does not mean that I am foolish or reckless with money. If I hit for $2,000.00 I may set a loss limit of $500.00 and walk out up $1,500.00. I will then put that $1,500.00 to good use and it could be something from upgrading a home appliance to putting it toward a new car. I hope that everyone has this same philosophy but I can't control what people do.
If I feel that something is amiss in a casino I do not play there. If I feel that I am not getting a good deal in a store that I patronize then I shop elsewhere. I have walked out of stores and car dealerships before and I will not be afraid to continue to do so in the future.
Getting back to casinos. If a person thinks that even 1 casino is corrupt then this may plant the seed in their head that ALL casinos are corrupt. That line of thinking makes no sense to me. Just because I think that 1 politician may be corrupt I do not think that ALL politicians are corrupt. That is: until they are proven to be corrupt. Being a resident of Illinois I think I may know a thing or two about corrupt politicians.
Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions and mine continues to be that I do not think there is something amiss with video poker in casinos. If I did, then I simply wouldn't play there.
Once before I asked a player here who made a comment about video poker being amiss because they were not winning. This same player stated that they had, in the past, enjoyed several years of great play. I asked why they would think something was wrong when they were losing but why didn't they think something was amiss when they were hitting royals on a more regular basis than the math says they should be hitting?
To each their own.
I haven't had the opportunity to play at "all" casinos but I have played at my share. I simply stated that I believe some casinos in my area have been allowed to make adjustments in order to stay in business. I noticed that you stated when you do hit a $2K jackpot you limit yourself to losing say $500 of it, I always did the same thing. What would you do if those $2K jackpots pretty much disappeared, how long would it take you to question how fair and random the games are. I'm guessing you play a lot of $1 DDB, I've played around 60K hands of $1 TDB and $1 DDB at one casino and haven't hit one single hand pay, should I continue on and trust the games or should I flee the scene?
Saw A Huge Win Today
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Tedlark
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 8637
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:29 am
ko I mainly play .25 denomination multiline machines. I will occasionally dabble at higher denominations, this year I went as high as $2.00 denom on again, multiline. I have played long enough to know that dry spells do happen and if I have the ability to ride it out, I do. If I hit my loss limit before regaining traction then I chalk it up to the game's long term play. As I have stated before; I will usually play extended periods at one machine because I don't think that playing for 5 minutes and leaving because I didn't hit a royal is not a fair sampling of the machine's play.
I believe that everyone has the right to play however they like and they have the right to think what they want.
ko getting to your question about fleeing the casino; that answer should come from you.
Good luck to all.
I believe that everyone has the right to play however they like and they have the right to think what they want.
ko getting to your question about fleeing the casino; that answer should come from you.
Good luck to all.
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ko king
- VP Veteran
- Posts: 670
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
ko I mainly play .25 denomination multiline machines. I will occasionally dabble at higher denominations, this year I went as high as $2.00 denom on again, multiline. I have played long enough to know that dry spells do happen and if I have the ability to ride it out, I do. If I hit my loss limit before regaining traction then I chalk it up to the game's long term play. As I have stated before; I will usually play extended periods at one machine because I don't think that playing for 5 minutes and leaving because I didn't hit a royal is not a fair sampling of the machine's play.
I believe that everyone has the right to play however they like and they have the right to think what they want.
ko getting to your question about fleeing the casino; that answer should come from you.
Good luck to all.
I played very little multi-line, when I did it was .25 10-play DDB. I'm such a creature of habit, for about 20 years I only played single line $2 and $5 denomination DDB. During those 20 years I saw some dry spells for sure, learned to accept them and keep plugging away, during those 20 years I learned to trust and respect the game. It took a few years and a lot of unusually bad vp before I started to question if all vp was the same. There's almost zero doubt in my mind now that all vp is not exactly the same. I wished I still had complete faith but I've played and seen way too much to accept the possibility. Anyway I wish you good luck.
I believe that everyone has the right to play however they like and they have the right to think what they want.
ko getting to your question about fleeing the casino; that answer should come from you.
Good luck to all.
I played very little multi-line, when I did it was .25 10-play DDB. I'm such a creature of habit, for about 20 years I only played single line $2 and $5 denomination DDB. During those 20 years I saw some dry spells for sure, learned to accept them and keep plugging away, during those 20 years I learned to trust and respect the game. It took a few years and a lot of unusually bad vp before I started to question if all vp was the same. There's almost zero doubt in my mind now that all vp is not exactly the same. I wished I still had complete faith but I've played and seen way too much to accept the possibility. Anyway I wish you good luck.
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FAA
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 9253
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am
I'm such a creature of habit, for about 20 years I only played single line $2 and $5 denomination DDB.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm squarely in the single line camp. I had a short Multiline session recently. It revealed, as I expected, that I can't stand the increased boom and bust swings. I'd be singing its praises had I hit a nice premium hand. But that didn't happen and my eyes were worn out from all the spinning cards. The casino's crappy 8/5 JOB offering didn't help either. I did get some entertainment value from the swanky lounge environment, but short pay is of course a ripoff.
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alpax
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 1940
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:42 pm
I am not sure what the distribution between DDB and TDB is within the 60k hands, is it 30k hands each? Was there at least low quads with a kicker while playing DDB which is not good enough for a W2G handpay on $1 denomination?
Sixty thousand hands is a lot of action for most recreational players, which is about 100 hours of play for most people. However for professional gamblers, it is not near enough on an annual basis for the results to be within half a percent of the theoretical return. Their volume of play must be in the hundreds of thousands on an annual basis and millions over their lifetime.
The high variance factor is one reason Mr. Dancer does not seem to be an advocate for playing Triple Double Bonus as I read the past head to head arguments with billyjoe. I do not doubt Mr. Dancer can play full pay TDB capably, just that the results (bell curve) can be so sporadic that he will not be a guaranteed winner year in and year out (it seems important to him that he ends up net plus by the end of the year).
The odds of getting Royal Flush or Aces with a Kicker is 1 in 11572 on DDB when playing the published basic strategy. It is about 5 hand cycles without those payable hands. I did go 600 hands without a full house and 900 hands without a flush in jacks or better, so I realize missing more than 5 cycles can happen time to time.
Not having those premium quads or the royal flush, the projected losses will easily be over $30,000. I do not blame ko king for not willing to take any more chances, but I just feel 200k hands is a better gauge for the premium quads. It is one reason a monster bankroll is needed to play video poker seriously. I am not sure if it is possible if the remaining players that still play are willing to share if they've won recently.
Sixty thousand hands is a lot of action for most recreational players, which is about 100 hours of play for most people. However for professional gamblers, it is not near enough on an annual basis for the results to be within half a percent of the theoretical return. Their volume of play must be in the hundreds of thousands on an annual basis and millions over their lifetime.
The high variance factor is one reason Mr. Dancer does not seem to be an advocate for playing Triple Double Bonus as I read the past head to head arguments with billyjoe. I do not doubt Mr. Dancer can play full pay TDB capably, just that the results (bell curve) can be so sporadic that he will not be a guaranteed winner year in and year out (it seems important to him that he ends up net plus by the end of the year).
The odds of getting Royal Flush or Aces with a Kicker is 1 in 11572 on DDB when playing the published basic strategy. It is about 5 hand cycles without those payable hands. I did go 600 hands without a full house and 900 hands without a flush in jacks or better, so I realize missing more than 5 cycles can happen time to time.
Not having those premium quads or the royal flush, the projected losses will easily be over $30,000. I do not blame ko king for not willing to take any more chances, but I just feel 200k hands is a better gauge for the premium quads. It is one reason a monster bankroll is needed to play video poker seriously. I am not sure if it is possible if the remaining players that still play are willing to share if they've won recently.
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Vman96
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3298
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:49 am
I think Bob mostly jarred with billyjoe because he was TDB or bust. He always plays TDB regardless of the paytable. I would try to suggest to him to better DDB games but it would never seem to work. And in the case of his visits to Beau Rivage, those TDB paytables are particularly rough.
But I've met billy, and he's a fine man with a great attitude. In our chat from what I could tell, he knew he was down money most years, but he could afford it, and he was having a hell of a time enjoying Vegas/Biloxi/etc. If he's happy, I'm happy.
As for Bob, I'm sure he would play TDB if the edge was big enough, but with full pay being 99.58%, I don't expect to see it often being the best choice. And when playing for profit, lower variance is definitely a big plus.
But I've met billy, and he's a fine man with a great attitude. In our chat from what I could tell, he knew he was down money most years, but he could afford it, and he was having a hell of a time enjoying Vegas/Biloxi/etc. If he's happy, I'm happy.
As for Bob, I'm sure he would play TDB if the edge was big enough, but with full pay being 99.58%, I don't expect to see it often being the best choice. And when playing for profit, lower variance is definitely a big plus.
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ko king
- VP Veteran
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- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
I am not sure what the distribution between DDB and TDB is within the 60k hands, is it 30k hands each? Was there at least low quads with a kicker while playing DDB which is not good enough for a W2G handpay on $1 denomination?
Sixty thousand hands is a lot of action for most recreational players, which is about 100 hours of play for most people. However for professional gamblers, it is not near enough on an annual basis for the results to be within half a percent of the theoretical return. Their volume of play must be in the hundreds of thousands on an annual basis and millions over their lifetime.
The high variance factor is one reason Mr. Dancer does not seem to be an advocate for playing Triple Double Bonus as I read the past head to head arguments with billyjoe. I do not doubt Mr. Dancer can play full pay TDB capably, just that the results (bell curve) can be so sporadic that he will not be a guaranteed winner year in and year out (it seems important to him that he ends up net plus by the end of the year).
The odds of getting Royal Flush or Aces with a Kicker is 1 in 11572 on DDB when playing the published basic strategy. It is about 5 hand cycles without those payable hands. I did go 600 hands without a full house and 900 hands without a flush in jacks or better, so I realize missing more than 5 cycles can happen time to time.
Not having those premium quads or the royal flush, the projected losses will easily be over $30,000. I do not blame ko king for not willing to take any more chances, but I just feel 200k hands is a better gauge for the premium quads. It is one reason a monster bankroll is needed to play video poker seriously. I am not sure if it is possible if the remaining players that still play are willing to share if they've won recently.
The majority of play was directed toward 9/6 TDB by far and the 60K hands were played at the same casino over the course of around 11 months. While I'm not a professional I do play quite a lot of vp, not near as much as I used to for obvious reasons. I hit more than my share of small quads 5-K's, quad 2's-4's and quad aces are another story, I fell far below the expected statistics. You're right though 60K hands doesn't really prove anything, while it's a lot of hands it's still just a drop in the bucket over the course of a lifetime. To be honest I'm about the only fool still willing to play $1 vp at that casino on a regular basis, I've seen that with my own eyes, had the bartender tell me that and a slot attendant I know fairly well. Is something going on there, I don't know and even if I did what would difference would it make other than I quit playing there. I could take my little old 60K hand sample to the powers that be (if I could find them, in 20 years I've never seen a single one of them, even went by the office once, it's about the size of my living room and no one was there, I could see 2 desk) and I bet they wouldn't have the slightest idea what they were looking at. Even if they had a clue they would laugh at my puny sample size. What's funny though is I can drive a few extra miles and play the same exact game and have far different results, even see other folks enjoying the game also. I mean the obvious solution is to just drive a few extra miles and ignore the other small market casino but it still drives me nuts.
Sixty thousand hands is a lot of action for most recreational players, which is about 100 hours of play for most people. However for professional gamblers, it is not near enough on an annual basis for the results to be within half a percent of the theoretical return. Their volume of play must be in the hundreds of thousands on an annual basis and millions over their lifetime.
The high variance factor is one reason Mr. Dancer does not seem to be an advocate for playing Triple Double Bonus as I read the past head to head arguments with billyjoe. I do not doubt Mr. Dancer can play full pay TDB capably, just that the results (bell curve) can be so sporadic that he will not be a guaranteed winner year in and year out (it seems important to him that he ends up net plus by the end of the year).
The odds of getting Royal Flush or Aces with a Kicker is 1 in 11572 on DDB when playing the published basic strategy. It is about 5 hand cycles without those payable hands. I did go 600 hands without a full house and 900 hands without a flush in jacks or better, so I realize missing more than 5 cycles can happen time to time.
Not having those premium quads or the royal flush, the projected losses will easily be over $30,000. I do not blame ko king for not willing to take any more chances, but I just feel 200k hands is a better gauge for the premium quads. It is one reason a monster bankroll is needed to play video poker seriously. I am not sure if it is possible if the remaining players that still play are willing to share if they've won recently.
The majority of play was directed toward 9/6 TDB by far and the 60K hands were played at the same casino over the course of around 11 months. While I'm not a professional I do play quite a lot of vp, not near as much as I used to for obvious reasons. I hit more than my share of small quads 5-K's, quad 2's-4's and quad aces are another story, I fell far below the expected statistics. You're right though 60K hands doesn't really prove anything, while it's a lot of hands it's still just a drop in the bucket over the course of a lifetime. To be honest I'm about the only fool still willing to play $1 vp at that casino on a regular basis, I've seen that with my own eyes, had the bartender tell me that and a slot attendant I know fairly well. Is something going on there, I don't know and even if I did what would difference would it make other than I quit playing there. I could take my little old 60K hand sample to the powers that be (if I could find them, in 20 years I've never seen a single one of them, even went by the office once, it's about the size of my living room and no one was there, I could see 2 desk) and I bet they wouldn't have the slightest idea what they were looking at. Even if they had a clue they would laugh at my puny sample size. What's funny though is I can drive a few extra miles and play the same exact game and have far different results, even see other folks enjoying the game also. I mean the obvious solution is to just drive a few extra miles and ignore the other small market casino but it still drives me nuts.
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FAA
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 9253
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am
What's funny though is I can drive a few extra miles and play the same
exact game and have far different results, even see other folks enjoying
the game also. The obvious solution is to just drive a few extra
miles and ignore the other small market casino but it still drives me
nuts.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Exactly the case with me. Once I decided to go two extra miles, I began to have better results. The game suddenly became very playable. There are waits and turf fights to get on a machine, always a sign of a solid gambling opportunity. Don't get mad, get even.
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ko king
- VP Veteran
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- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
What's funny though is I can drive a few extra miles and play the same
exact game and have far different results, even see other folks enjoying
the game also. The obvious solution is to just drive a few extra
miles and ignore the other small market casino but it still drives me
nuts.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Exactly the case with me. Once I decided to go two extra miles, I began to have better results. The game suddenly became very playable. There are waits and turf fights to get on a machine, always a sign of a solid gambling opportunity. Don't get mad, get even.
I'm a country boy so when I use the word "few" it's actually quite a bit more than 3 miles, haven't checked the actual mileage but it's more like 15-20 miles. While I've never been in the position of being able to find a machine to play there it can get a little crowded considering how they have almost all the vp machines in a cubby hole. There's a really good casino much closer to my location but it stays packed, I don't know how many times I stopped to play and couldn't even get a vp machine. Then there's the fact that this casino has 2 regulars that are cigar smokers, it seems like every time I go they are there and I can't stand cigar smoke.
You brought up something that hit the nail on the head when it comes to me playing at that small market casino " don't get mad, get even", I got mad, I've always been that way, when I can't do something and I get mad and try harder. Now getting mad/frustrated has always worked pretty well for me when it came to most things, but that casino beats the brakes off of me every time I go there. I have now pretty much given up on the place but it still doesn't answer the question that makes me mad, why is it so bad there? In my opinion this casino isn't alone, there are a few others I don't trust anymore, all small market casinos.
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FAA
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am
KK, even twenty extra miles is tolerable, given today's gas prices. If you get mad, you will throw good money after bad. Get even by exploiting the more playable casino. Why is it so bad anyway? I gave up pondering that as it is irrelevant to my primary consideration, finishing each session in the black.
