Odds

[FloridaPhil]

Back when I was working out the kinks in CS, I attempted something similar.  I would play deuces wild $20 at a time and switch to DDB on a $40 run up.  I had some nice hits, but it seemed I always got the quads in deuces wild instead of DDB.  If you want to see a bunch of 4 aces with kicker, play deuces wild for a while.   I think the way to go is to play single coin quarters most of the day, take a couple of $20 shots on the $1 or $5 machines and pocket any winnings.  Anyone who thinks they are going to beat one of today's video poker games flat betting is smoking something.  The more I play the more I doubt these claims.  Since I switched back to max coin play, I have returned to losing.  I did much better with CS.  I may not have had as much fun, but I didn't shrink my bankroll.  I knew better, but the Dancer followers got to me.  Somewhere a casino manager is laughing at us. 

[ko king]

I agree in general Phil, but the 0-60 times for the Scat pack challenger and the lightweight are pretty close. Motor trend got 0-60 of 4.2 for the scat pack and several tests had the 63 in the 5 second range. To get really close to the challenger, I guess it would have to be the 64 Fairlane Thunderbolt that had a time of 4.5 seconds. That had the 427 as well.
     I actually back had in the day a rare 63 Ford Galaxie conv. with a strange little V-8 of only 221 cu.in. It had a special order full tonneau cover. It was a beautiful car with new factory color torquoise paint and extra reinforcement of the frame underneath done by a really smart local steel worker. My co worker's mom had bought it new and they sold it to me. Sadly, it wouldn't fit in my garage by a couple of inches. I still remember delivering it to a buyer who we met up in Danbury Ct. just before a big snowfall. You won't believe the price. Just 900 bucks. And there are no extra zeroes in there. There was a story with this car which I never tried to verify. It was supposed to go to the 64 World's Fair in Ny. Ford decided to go with their 64 cars. I remember going to the fair and riding in one of the 64 Mustangs. It was part of their magic skyway exhibit.
     On to vp for a moment. If all is well at home with the folks, I plan a run up tonight. I read a recent post about switching games on the same machine. I have had some success with that. It happened by starting out with a job session which was quadless for many hours. Switched the game to airport deuces and the 5 of a kinds started coming followed by 4 deuces a short time later. That was only one session, but it was a fun one at the end. That is on the agenda if I am able to get up there late tonight.

Went to the casino nearest my home yesterday afternoon, all the way there I was hoping I could just get on a machine. I pulled in the parking lot and could tell it was crowed like it usually is. I went to the area where the majority of vp machines are located and found that 2 machines were empty. I sat down and hadn't played 10 hands when a guy came and sat down at the machine next to me and lit a cigar. I cashed out my remaining credits and headed back to the area where I had recently discovered the other vp machines. All the machines were taken except one, no cigar smokers though. Sat down and found out why it was the only machine open, the buttons and the screen were messed up. I cashed out those credits and ordered a mega beer, just sat there and watched a basketball game. After maybe an hour I noticed that two of the machines on the other end had opened up. I started playing DDB and hit quad kings right off the bat, a little while later I hit quad 8's, about 20 hands later I caught quad jacks. I had the credits up to 640 and switched to TDB, after a few hands quad 2's, no kicker. I had decided I would play down to 1,000 credits and quit. The machine would get down to 1005 credits and I would always hit a full house, flush or straight, I played a long time like that never falling to 1,000 credits. Finally at 1020 credits I was dealt trip aces, caught the forth aces along with the kicker for 4K credits. See this has been my complaint with the small market casinos, this kind of play doesn't exist. I don't know how they keep it from happening but they do, it's my guess that's the reason they have almost nobody playing there. The only difference I can see with the casinos is one casino is packed with players and the other is almost empty. I managed to play over 60K hands at the small market casino and never caught a single premium hand. I may have played the same amount of hands at the other casino and I've hit 7 premium hands, 1 royal, 3 quad aces w/kicker and 3 sets of quad 2-4's w/kicker. I don't know how it can be anymore obvious that something is going on at the small market casinos. I just don't think they can afford to keep the doors if they allow the premium to hit anywhere close to what the statistics say.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko king]I just don't think they can afford to keep the doors if they allow the
premium to hit anywhere close to what the statistics say.[/quote]I don't think the machines are rigged, I think the odds calculators are using crazy math.  If you think you can ever get 99% back from a 99% video poker game long term, good luck!!  You may get comps that put you in the black, but you're not making it from the game itself. 

[ko king]

[quote=ko king]I just don't think they can afford to keep the doors if they allow the
premium to hit anywhere close to what the statistics say.I don't think the machines are rigged, I think the odds calculators are using crazy math.  If you think you can ever get 99% back from a 99% video poker game long term, good luck!!  You may get comps that put you in the black, but you're not making it from the game itself. 
[/QUOTE]

For a few years I've been hesitant to use the word "rigged" in favor of "adjusted" or "manipulated", the more I think about if a casino either adjusted or manipulated the machines it would still be considered "rigged", so be it. I'm not sure what you mean by "odds calculator", here's what I do know. If you play 100K hands at a small market casino in our area and 100K at one of the crowed casinos that see plenty of traffic your results will be very different. Here's something else I know, several casinos in this area were on the verge of closing, two casinos did close. Several jobs were lost due to layoffs and the closing of the two casinos, I've heard over 3K jobs lost. There's really only a few casinos they still draw good crowds, the rest looked to be at death's door. My guess is that the powers that be had to do something to stop the bleeding. After 3K jobs were lost and casino revenues still dropping something had to be done to insure that the smaller market casinos could keep the doors open and salvage what jobs they could. I'm almost positive the slots were dropped to the bare minimum long ago. The words "limit our exposure" still stand out and I remember them well. I really don't think there was a choice, the only way the majority of casinos in this area could continue operations was to increase their take. Just simply dropping the pay tables on vp games did nothing but chase away possible players. I watched the two casinos that simply dropped pay tables empty quick. You know as well as I do that the first thing most vp players do is check the pay tables, if they're bad most people just walk away. One of the casinos in this area had decent vp and drew a lot of players, they dropped the pay tables for $2 denom and $1 denom on DDB to 8/5, dropped the TDB to the same, the machines just sat there collecting dust. When I go to that casino I only play cards but always go to check if the pay tables have been changed and nobody is ever playing.

[olds442jetaway]

WTG KO... Won't have to worry about the gas mileage now on the way home... ...Hit the pedal once for me...hopefully no smokys in the area... ...

     Edited to add one more car tidbit. Back in the day, I sold the following cars for these prices. Any one of them today would pay for my vp losses this year. 68 Camaro conv. factory 3 sp...700-, 68 Charger R/T...1200, 63 Galaxie special conv..900-, 65 GTO conv 850-...65 MGB...550, 64 TR-4..600, and the grand finale...1957 Austin Healey 100-6 needing just a little work...200 BUCKS... This was back in the early 70's right around the time the first gas crisis hit.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=olds442jetaway]Back in the day, I sold the following cars for these prices.[/quote]In 1974 I had a Ford dealership client that happened to be a Shelby dealer. The manager called me and asked if I wanted to buy a used 1967 Shelby GT 500 mustang he had on his lot.  It seems no one could get insurance on it and they were having a problem selling it off their used car lot.  I bought the car for $1,600 and resold it for $2,500.  At the time I thought I made a killing.  That was a mistake.  I've owned a number of cars I wish I still had like a 1963 Ford 406 6V car, a 1961 Ford Starliner with a 427 side-oiler, a 1967 Ford 427 R Code Fairlane and a 1965 Mustang GT350.   Over the years I restored dozens of muscle cars as a hobby.  Five years ago I developed serious back issues and sold my cars.   Video poker is easier on the back, but not as easy on the wallet. The most frustrating thing about video poker is the idea that some people clam to make a living at it.  Until our recent sparing match with Bob Dancer, I had no idea now this was done.  Video poker is the vehicle he uses, but it's not the game itself that turns the profit.  High stakes coupon clipping the comp system is where the profit is.  Your average player is never going to win much at this game.  The best you can hope for is to adjust your cost of fun to fit your tolerance for losing.

[daily_double]

I really don't think there was a choice, the only way the majority of casinos in this area could continue operations was to increase their take. .

If you go to google, type in "November 2015 casino revenue for whatever state you are in " you should find a result from UNLV Center for Gaming Research. It will have a report for every casino in the state you chose, going back years. I check it a few times a year, just because I am curious as to whats going on in my home state. The reports are very good, the whole report will have a summary from the beginning of casino gambling in my state (2013) up to last month. Tell us what you find. And feel free to tell me that doesn't tell you anything. Casino take at my home casino is consistent since they opened

[olds442jetaway]

I tried, but can't resist another quick car story. Promise to end with some vp though. In 1970, with no money, no job, and fresh out of UCONN, I took a job for 8 months at a local junkyard. Best job I ever had. Paid almost nothing, but loved it. Anyway, they also had a used car lot up front. One day a drunk guy showed up with a 62 Ford Galaxie 406 tri power. Had a weak clutch and bad thermostat. He junked it for a hundred bucks. I offered the owner of the yard 125- for it which I didn't even have. He said no and by the end of the day had sold it off the lot for 250-. Never saw it again.
     Looking good so far for heading up to the casino sometime late tonight. It will be a fairly quick trip and I have to be back right after breakfast tomorrow. For that reason, I changed my mind and will just play single coin Deuces Wild. Going up to bet 5 on hits of 4 or more. I haven't had much luck so far with the method, but haven't lost much either. I have to do a little stocking stuffer shopping up there anyway, so as good excuse as any to head up there. Have a little free play and free gas too.

[wildman49]

If you think you can ever get 99% back from a 99% video poker game long term, good luck!!  You may get comps that put you in the black, but you're not making it from the game itself. 
I could not agree more Phil, I play 99% plus games every time I go and there is no way where I play you can get that pay back. 96-97% on a good year without free play. Not sure how or why that is but I see the same as you.

[wildman49]

   If you want to see a bunch of 4 aces with kicker, play deuces wild for a while.  




I would be willing to bet anyone that comes to the casino I play at $100 an hour that I will hit more natural 4ok playing DW then they would playing DDB. That would be easy money right there.