Taj Mahal/Icahn & North Jersey casinos

[pokerjoker1]

CNBC article concerning Trump Taj Mahal and possible North Jersey casinos



Could be more problems for the Taj Mahal

[notes1]

read this article the other day. do not know if this figures into the equation, but Icahn is having a terrible year with his invesments. lost a lot, he will likely get it back, smart guy. as far as the elected officials promises, i can only guess they may be thinking, does NJ throw all it's gambling hope behind AC coming back or spread the gambling wealth around the state. i think this is logical debate. let AC downsize to a smaller casino size and hope other private development comes in and takes advantage of the ocean location and the surviving casinos, and build upon it. then, expand gambling to other areas and hope to recover some lost gaming tax revenue. could be they have given hope hope of AC ever returning to it's glory days. 

[DaBurglar]

read this article the other day. do not know if this figures into the equation, but Icahn is having a terrible year with his invesments. lost a lot, he will likely get it back, smart guy. as far as the elected officials promises, i can only guess they may be thinking, does NJ throw all it's gambling hope behind AC coming back or spread the gambling wealth around the state. i think this is logical debate. let AC downsize to a smaller casino size and hope other private development comes in and takes advantage of the ocean location and the surviving casinos, and build upon it. then, expand gambling to other areas and hope to recover some lost gaming tax revenue. could be they have given hope hope of AC ever returning to it's glory days. good post.....you encapsulated very well the whole gamut of issues and the ongoing debate/dilemma in AC and NJ as it pertains to gambling.The article cited/linked  in the original post is indeed disturbing.....it emphasizes how the political "leadership"  has flatout LIED, broken many promises and assurances it gave, to protect AC and focus on saving it.    This is really a HUGE issue and one that cannot be glossed over or explained away, and it is a BI-partisan issue, since it would appear that BOTH democratic and republican leaders/politiicans are willing to sell out or renege on promises to help AC first!!!!   What the hell is going on here????   Who, what or where are people supposed to put their trust and faith in terms of Government when any and all people & parties are willing to flatout lie and renege on promises that they make to get elected!?!?!!??!Since CHris Christie assumed office circa 2010, and the CRDA (Casino Reinvestment Development Authority) was galvanized into a more vigorous and dynamic agenda and actions, which coincided with the massive push to finish & open Revel, it has indeed been the intent to bring AC back and return it to its glory days.Of course, we all know how that turned out......what still reamins open to debate is whether the abject failure of the last 5 years was due to incompetence and waste and fraud on the part of those who implemented and oversaw this CRDA push, or whether the entire objective (to restore and bring AC "back") is in itself completely and totlally NOT POSSIBLE any longer due to permanent changes and shifts in the whole market, economy and society.    I tend to think it is BOTH actually.....AC has already "downsized" to its current 8 casinos, (used to be 11, with a brief period when there were 12 but that included the fatal REVEL fiasco, which only served to HASTEN the downfall of the other three casinos, Showboat, Trump Plaza and AC CLUB, which all croaked with the Revel in the period starting very late 2013 thru 2014)......if they SHRINK the number even further to 7 or (gasp) 6, then there will be grievous changes to the rest of AC's economy that surround and support the casinos, which in turn will shrink revenues everyhwhere, including city/state taxes, which in turn causes more cuts, and on and on and on......there FIRST AND FOREMOST needs to be total acceptance that the old days are gone, that AC will never again have the type of profitability it previously SQUANDERED, and that from now on, the only REAL objective is to simply SURVIVE, hold on to what they have, keep the jobs they have, and myabe, just maybe there will be a MODEST profit at the end of the day (or at the end of each fiscal year), so that they may continue to survive etc etc.You are correct Notes1, about Icahn being a very smart guy......also happens to be a nice guy too, according to "HERE SAY"  that I have, um, 'heard'.........Edited to add:   Whatever INTEGRITY or other positive qualities Chris Christie might have had earlier, they are now gone.....GONE.    That guy is a total jerk, a fat blustery ego maniac who thinks the rules or morality does not apply to himself.  Typical behavior of a bully......even if he and Icahn happen to publicly agree on certain things (like endorsing TRUMP ,  I think it is unfair and wrong to put him on the same level or same status as Icahn, as it insults Icahn and people who support Icahn)

[olds442jetaway]

     I absolutely hate politics yet know that we are stuck with it. Even notice that so many politicians are or were also lawyers. Of course the word lawyer and lie both start with the same letter. Hmmmmmm.....

[notes1]

 everyone knows my distrust of government and elected folks. power and greed. and, i am none to happy with many voters. AC's problems were well in place before christie was elected. i am sure the residents of NJ are proud of their state and getting a little tired of the negative comments. we left NYS, for NC, almost 30 years ago, to escape the cold, the taxes and regulation. many other yankees did the same. business was booming, opportunites were plentiful. but, no sooner did the northern folks move here, they started demanding more government stuff, and that stuff cost money. taxes rose to pay for it. slowly, big businesses did not make their move to NC anymore, the cost of doing business had increased. and, in the middle of the great recession, NC went from being the envy of the country, to having one of the highest unemployment rates.  in the case of AC and the state, the options were poor. the money that was set aside to revitalize/improve the area, had already been spent elsewhere. just like lottery monies to be spent on education, means redirecting previous education dollars, to someplace else.   i have no idea what will happen, but the state of NJ wants/needs revenue. they have gross under funded state pension plan, among the highest property taxes in the nation and residents are leaving the state. if it means giving up on AC and trying to get gambling revenues somewhere else, what can they do. so, whether it is NC or NJ or your state, people have got to quit asking for stuff. i have a proposal. the next time, any area asks their citizens to vote on some increased spending measure, tell the voters to bring their checkbook. vote yes, write a check on the spot. let's see how many requests are approved then.

[olds442jetaway]

The waste, fraud, and corruption in government is beyond belief. I can't count how many mayors, governors, and other elected officials go to prison in Ct. and that is the ones who get caught and can't cop a plea deal. Very frustrating. That is probably why I spend so much time playing vp so as not to dwell on it all of the time. I have a good solution for all of them, but it would only work in Russia.

[Carcounter]

Been a resident of NJ since1985. It has been good to me and my business, so no major complaints from me. However the middle class is dying here. High cost of living/ housing so it is no surprise people with some means are moving out. Christie gets too much blame, mostly because of his ego and bombastic ways, but he actually hasn't, been a bad gov. A study just came out that concluded property taxes rose an average of less than 2% per yr. under his run. Much better than previous admins. When he is gone and we inevitably get a dem gov. the gas tax will be increased significantly. I believe that to be a fact. Should be an interesting power struggle between Steve Sweeney from south Jersey and Steve Fulop, the mayor of Jersey City for the dem nomination. Don,t think the republicans have have anyone to compete seriously. I would like to get out but my kids, grandkids and business are here so I'll stick around and pay for the "privilege".

[DaBurglar]

I fully realize that AC's problems predate Christie and that he did not CAUSE most of them,;  but as we see quite often in many different examples (even at the top with our current president Obama), it is the chief executive (be it a governor, a mayor or a president) who is  currently in power who ultimately gets the blame for problems that persist or worsen on his watch, even if he inherited those problems or issues when he first took office......and then we witness the ultimate extreme, Donald Trump actually blaming things like 9/11 on W. Bush even though the guy was in power less than 8 months!   People simply do not care and are not interested in being just or fair when it comes to blaming problems on the right people or causes.....all they know is the here and now.   It is not right, but it is reality....The Tax revenue from AC was indeed supposed to fund a wide swath of things and issues for the state of NJ.   This was the intent of the state when it added casino gaming in 1978 and built AC......New Jersey has always been in a unique and challenging spot, with its proximity to NYC, Philly, D.C. and other centers of politics and activity.....it saw a veritable gold mine when it opened AC in 1979, and they were RIGHT, for the better part of 2 decades plus.....AC was the second largest casino market in the USA (maybe even the world) right up until the mid 2000s, and then WHAM!    The state and the Casino Interests in AC reacted almost suicidal when Pennsylvania planned, and then implemented LOTS of gambling establishments, which were closely followed by other local states and communities doing so......AC and New Jersey Casinos literally sat by catatonic for the first 2-3 years watching their revenue shrink dramatically, and with it the taxes!This is the point & problem I just cannot get over, the abject incompetence that seemed to grip AC and the New Jersey Casino interests when it became apparent that their business was in serious jeopardy....their passive reaction to the threat next door in hindsight looks horrible.     I have heard all the stories about how, in 2006 when Pennsylvania casinos first opened in earnest, almost all AC NJ casino executives, and all the casino commission people and all the NJ state lawmakers adopted the view that their customer base would remain loyal because, afterall, "THIS WAS AC, we have the boardwalk, we have the ocean, WE ARE AC!!"   They honestly believed that everyone would remain with AC, even if they tried the new places, they would ultimately stick with AC.     I have no idea the basis for this thinking but we now know it was flawed in the extreme!      And there went all the taxes (or a lot of them)What I really do not get is WHERE do they (NJ lawmakers) seriously think any and all of the revenues they get from having casino in the NYC/Newark area is going to come from?   How much do they think they will rake in????    I am almost totally convinced, without having seen any studies or empirical data but simply going with my gut on this, that given the total saturation of the area with casinos up and down the seaboard,  any new casino they open in North Jersey will derive almost ALL its revenue at the expense of AC.     No doubt in my mind at all.....

[Carcounter]

One thing that is not in AC's favor is it's location with respect to major metropolitan population densities. It is a 2&1/2 Hr. ride from the NYC metro area, or longer if you live on Long Island or the northern suburbs, south Jersey suburbs outside Philly, 1 Hr. But not as many people here as the northern NYC suburbs. There are numerous casinos closer to the Baltimore and Wash. DC metro areas. Day trips to AC by car are tough from the major metros. The big problem is the lack of business on weekdays in the winter. It is just dead and the operating costs have to outweigh potential profits during these times. Weekends are always busy, even in the winter assuming no big weather issues. Summers are busy every day. Time for some of the underperforming casinos to start thinking about becoming seasonal? I think casinos in north Jersey will hurt AC, but they will hurt the closer NY and Pennsylvania casinos more.

[Bobbi]

I would think the appeal to AC is in the summer only - otherwise people would only take a short day ride out there and not spend that much money. Do they do the bus trips out there?