Surviving in the Real World of VP

[FloridaPhil]

Everyone likes to read about winning.  No one likes to think about losing.  It's fun to fantasize about a world where all the games are positive, the cards always come up right and loses are always covered by even bigger wins. I have a copy of Dancer's Million Dollar Video Poker.  The pages are all torn and falling out, but I keep reading it over and over again.  What a story!  Some guy just like you and me goes from living on free buffets to banking over million dollars all by playing VP.  He never makes a mistake, runs out of money or has anything bad happen.  He happily loses $50K in an afternoon and nonchalantly forges on to even bigger wins.  If only we could capture just a little of that guy's genius we could all be big winners just like him?For most people video poker is not that profitable.  If you are honest with yourself, you will probably agree with me.   I've been playing video poker for over 10 years.  For the last four years it has escalated to a serious hobby.   So much so that I now have a new car solely dedicated to my weekly trips to the casino.  It's about 200 miles round trip, so the deprecation and expense gets to be an issue.  My weekly VP budget is $500.  My vacation budget is $2K. This allows me to play max coin quarters for a minimum of 4 hours a day with a little left over for $1 play pot shots.  I cash out every win from $50 and up, so I never come home totally busted. Besides playing one day a week, my wife and I also take monthly VP vacations.  We are flexible with our schedules, never play on weekends or holidays and most always get fully comped rooms.  The casinos we visit don't offer positive games, but most are 98-99%.  Thanks to some excellent luck, so far I am up this year.  My wife's total annual losses never exceed $2K.  This is not include any comps.  Considering all the fun we have staying at great resorts for practically nothing, we think VP is a real bargain.How do you survive?   What games do you play and what are the odds?  Do you take pot shots?  Do you feel like VP is worth the cost? 

[POKERKAT]

Winning a progressive for $11,000 at one of our Indian casinos kinda hooked me many years ago. Over a short period I kept hitting. Wow, this is easy! Ha. I've had to learn to be smarter in control of my money since. Chasing a win rarely works. I also cash out at certain points and pocket some money. Have had many Royals over the years and wish I had kept count. I agree that over the long haul, it's not a profitable venture but always considered it my "holiday" money. Don't do many of the concerts anymore, don't need to eat at 5 star restaurants. My entertainment budget goes to playing when I am there.
Another thing that keeps me in check, my husband doesn't really play. I shudder to think how often we would be playing if he enjoyed it as much as me.
Play mostly VP, will hit slots for a break but get bored not having any control. Also, casinos are great for people watching which I have always enjoyed.
Already have three trips lined up in 2017 for conventions and a fireworks show. Jan., Vegas, Feb., Laughlin, March, Vegas. Have to be smart with that amount of trips. At least the rooms will be free!

[DAAnMAAn]

Since I moved to Vegas back in 2004 I have dabbled in video poker. Only recreationally and for fun, I didn't understand pay tables, correct holds, what variance was, just played whatever deuces wild game, bonus poker, or double double bonus was around because I overheard a friend say these are good games, whatever that meant.
Then, somehow, I ran across a guy who called himself Bob Dancer. Started to read his articles online. Amazed that video poker was not only considered a skill game, but could possibly make some coin with it to boot. I started reading everything I could. But, the real revolution for my VP experience came when I downloaded WinPoker software. This was about 4 years ago and I never looked back.
I don't want to say I play video poker semi-pro or as a part time job or as for supplemental income, because most people will give me that deer in the headlines look or the your in denial/full of s$&t look because everyone they known looses money on VP or why would casinos put machines in to lose money or whatever because they know it all yet know very little.
SO....I just say I play video poker here and there and seem to do well at it and that's all.
Now there are people who are professional singers out there. I can't sing. But that doesn't mean that since I can't sing there can't possibly be people out there making a living singing. Video poker is no different.
To end this before it becomes a novel, I survive because I have a full time job and do well at video poker part time.
I play mostly 10/6 DDB and full pay deuces. Sometimes I will play bonus poker or jacks or better, and on rarer times, something else. The games I play more often than not exceed 100% ER, but not always. But I almost never but rare occasions play a game less than 99% ER.
Yes, I take pot shots. I consider it necessary to grow and eventually attain the next level. However, one must be careful with pot shots and be ready to go back to their comfort zone if pot shot misses, and use wise budgeting. Things that I am not perfect at, but working on.
At any rate, keep learning and practice, that's the key.
Cheers

[FloridaPhil]

Good post.  I definitely believe there are people who make money playing video poker.   To do so takes skill, opportunities and a bunch of discipline.  To make "real" money you must also have dogged determination.  In other words...a lot of work.   Sitting on a stool at all hours of the night, waiting to see if your name is pulled out of a barrel, putting up with drunks, smokers and who knows whatever else doesn't sound that glamorous to me.  However, if that's what someone wants to do for a living, I say go for it.I used to feel bad because I didn't win like the hero in those books.  I think I'm at least as intelligent and when I was younger I'm sure I could have matched his skill.  He's a lot older now too, so we may be even at this point.  Eventually, I realized I wasn't motivated enough.  My business skills made me successful in my working life, so I didn't need VP as a source of income.  Like most people I play video poker as recreation, which I feel is a different game than he is playing.  Also, living in Vegas is a huge advantage.   One visit and anyone can see that.In my view what is needed is a book written for average players with average games and skills.  How many players outside of Nevada have access to positive games?  Sure you can move up to $25 a hand and find 100% games assuming the comps they offer have value to you.  The problem is the potential losses.  In that world, one mistake could cost you a year's worth of returns. I think not. The formula for surviving as a happy recreational video poker player is to find a low variance game you like with the best odds you can, learn to play it accurately and guard your bankroll as if it's your last dollar.   A few days a year you will have a great day and you can stash that money away.  Staying away from circus games and games with crazy variance also helps.  I'm still learning every day and admit I've made some mistakes, but I feel good about where I'm going and where I've been.  It's all good.

[FloridaPhil]

One thing I don't agree with is how some players count comps and outside raffle winnings as VP profit.   It's true they are profit, but it tweaks the results artificially to the benefit of big time players and those able to take advantage of the offers.  I'll give you an example.  A professional VP player gets invited to a raffle.  He gets lucky and wins the raffle of a $3,500 cruise.  He immediately adds the value of the cruise to his winnings claiming an overall profit on VP.   A quarter recreational player plays exactly the same games with the same accuracy and doesn't get invited to win the cruise.  This causes the quarter player to believe the professional is better at the game itself when this isn't necessarily the case.  The professional is better at the comp game, not VP.  In addition, the raffle win was pure luck with no skill involved whatsoever.Here's a funny story.  After a long career in the computer software business,  I retired at age 50.  I was bored so I got involved with real estate investing with my wife.  We bought and sold luxury estate homes in Central Florida.  Between video poker trips, we still dabble in this on occasion.  One day I was playing VP at the Rio in Las Vegas.   The ceiling show had just started when my cell phone went off.  If you have ever seen that show it's unbelievably loud, so I ran into the bathroom to answer the phone.  While standing in one of the stalls, I sold a lakefront home we had listed for $1.4M.  The net profit on that sale was well over $40K.  If I used the same math as the VP professional my VP winnings would increased by $40K.  After all, I may not have sold that home if I wasn't playing VP.  

[onemoretry]

If I used the same math as the VP professional my VP winnings would increased by $40K.  After all, I may not have sold that home if I wasn't playing VP.  
Winning a drawing with an entry earned with video poker play is hardly the same as happening to close a real estate deal while playing video poker.

[Vman96]

Yeah that's a bad comparison. People can definitely overvalue comps though. Is earning $100 in food comps at a casino via VP play really worth $100? Generally no. Most of the time, you can get similar quality food for less somewhere else.

[FloridaPhil]

Comps only have value if you can use them.  That's not my point.   If you are to compare the video poker "skill level" of individual players, everything needs to be equal.  If you win money long term, I want to know how much you won cashing out tickets not playing raffles or staying in free rooms.  Long term claims of 6 figure incomes from VP play alone without using comps or outside gambling wins are questionable in my opinion.  By playing smart and accuratey, not going on tilt and protecting your bankroll, you can break even or come out slightly ahead more years than you will lose even playing less than 100% games.  It definitely takes some luck, but some people seem to have enough.All this counting doesn't really mean much.  What's important is that you have fun and don't take this game too seriously.

[FAA]

I need some advice. Should I stay in free rooms if offered? I'm new to these offers and am a bit leery. Too good to be true? 

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]I need some advice. Should I stay in free rooms if offered? I'm new to these offers and am a bit leery. Too good to be true?[/quote]Seriously?  Of course you should take any comp that is offered as long as it has value to you personally.  The reason a casino offers free rooms is to get you to put more time in front of their machines.  If the odds are so bad that your potential loses are greater than the value of the room, you may pass on the comp.For years the Beau Rivage in Biloxi MS offered "free" rooms and flights.  You could actually stay for a week if you wished.   The problem was the VP was all 96% or worse.  If you gambled in their casino the whole time you were there, you could easily lose $500 or more a day playing max coin quarters. Believe me this was no bargain.  As crazy as it sounds, they currently get people to pay for this abuse.The free rooms at the Hollywood Hard Rock are worth about $250 a night during the week.  They offer 98.9% quarter VP, so this is a real deal.  Also, there are no room taxes of any kind and the food credits are generous making this one of the best bargains on the East Coast.   My wife and I take full advantage of this making at least once one, two or more day overnight trips each month.Compare this to Cherokee NC.   We can get a free room there any time we want.  The 98.9% VP starts at the 50 cent level.  This isn't too bad, but you can lose $1,500 on a bad day.  The Caesars food credits stink, so you can forget about that unless you want to lose a bunch of money.  You have to make these choices for yourself as everyone likes something different.  The thing to do is to research your own casino's offerings and comp program.  Sit down with one of their customer representatives and they will explain everything to you in person.  If you can't find anyone to do this for you, you need to find another facility.